1 00:00:23,018 --> 00:00:26,181 All we can do is try to publicize the facts. 2 00:00:26,623 --> 00:00:29,524 Not what the government is saying, but the facts. 3 00:00:29,693 --> 00:00:33,219 And not simply parrot or regurgitate... 4 00:00:33,597 --> 00:00:37,396 what the government's saying, because that's largely bullshit. 5 00:00:41,536 --> 00:00:43,231 lt was the dead of winter. 6 00:00:43,539 --> 00:00:46,100 l don't remember it ever being so cold. 7 00:00:46,243 --> 00:00:48,234 And we were on a mission. 8 00:00:48,378 --> 00:00:52,212 A bunch of us had volunteered to drive our good friend to his new home... 9 00:00:52,314 --> 00:00:56,012 the Schuylkill Federal Prison in the middle of Pennsylvania. 10 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:58,384 He called himself Phiber Optik. 11 00:00:58,487 --> 00:01:02,447 You'd have to look hard to find someone who didn't think he was brilliant. 12 00:01:04,325 --> 00:01:06,090 Before we left, we had a night of fun... 13 00:01:06,194 --> 00:01:09,563 in the streets of Philadelphia, in the middle of an ice storm. 14 00:01:10,834 --> 00:01:12,197 Phiber learned by exploring. 15 00:01:12,302 --> 00:01:13,792 He was never too busy to explain... 16 00:01:13,903 --> 00:01:15,733 howthings worked to anyone interested. 17 00:01:15,837 --> 00:01:18,671 l think that's what pissed of the authorities the most. 18 00:01:18,775 --> 00:01:22,072 They never tried to prove that Phiber Optik hacked into any computers. 19 00:01:22,179 --> 00:01:23,474 They got him for conspiracy... 20 00:01:23,578 --> 00:01:25,444 for talking on a tapped phone line... 21 00:01:25,549 --> 00:01:26,980 about howto hack certain sites. 22 00:01:27,084 --> 00:01:29,018 There were people who broke into systems... 23 00:01:29,117 --> 00:01:31,917 and fucked things up, and they never even got arrested. 24 00:01:32,022 --> 00:01:33,010 The feds didn't care. 25 00:01:33,123 --> 00:01:37,492 They wanted to shut down the teachers, the people who didn't knowto keep secrets. 26 00:01:38,561 --> 00:01:39,584 There's Bernie S. 27 00:01:39,694 --> 00:01:41,686 He's another guy who loves to explain... 28 00:01:41,798 --> 00:01:44,129 howtechnology works to anyone who's interested. 29 00:01:44,233 --> 00:01:48,066 He didn't know it, but hell was just around the corner waiting for him. 30 00:01:49,138 --> 00:01:51,403 We made one last stop before we dropped Phiber off. 31 00:01:51,507 --> 00:01:52,941 lt was a town called Frackville. 32 00:01:53,043 --> 00:01:56,308 We thought it was funny because of a hacker newsletter called Phrack. 33 00:01:56,412 --> 00:01:59,209 We thought it'd make a good picture for the hacker community. 34 00:01:59,316 --> 00:02:01,614 But Bernie had the balls to get a Frackville cop... 35 00:02:01,718 --> 00:02:02,980 to pose with Phiber. 36 00:02:03,084 --> 00:02:04,917 These guys had no clue what was going on... 37 00:02:05,021 --> 00:02:07,284 but they quickly got into the spirit. 38 00:02:11,092 --> 00:02:13,961 lt was the last time we laughed that night. 39 00:02:15,264 --> 00:02:16,960 We drove to the prison. 40 00:02:17,167 --> 00:02:19,497 lt felt like it was 20 degrees below zero. 41 00:02:19,603 --> 00:02:21,569 We didn't know they'd throw him in the hole... 42 00:02:21,669 --> 00:02:24,764 for the entire weekend. Some kind of prison welcoming ceremony. 43 00:02:25,876 --> 00:02:28,139 And like the gullible idiots we were... 44 00:02:28,245 --> 00:02:30,770 we figured we'd have a chance to say goodbye. 45 00:02:31,580 --> 00:02:32,877 We didn't. 46 00:02:34,050 --> 00:02:35,608 They grabbed him. 47 00:02:35,752 --> 00:02:39,381 And we had to run out of there to keep them from taking our camera. 48 00:02:45,162 --> 00:02:47,221 Phiber came home 10 months later, a hero. 49 00:02:47,330 --> 00:02:49,729 Everyone knew sending someone like that to prison... 50 00:02:49,831 --> 00:02:51,460 was a big mistake. 51 00:02:51,735 --> 00:02:55,294 After it was over, we were pretty sure it wouldn't happen again. 52 00:02:56,973 --> 00:02:58,438 Were we ever wrong. 53 00:03:23,831 --> 00:03:27,030 Bad boys gone to jail 54 00:03:27,871 --> 00:03:31,068 Bad boys gone to jail 55 00:03:31,608 --> 00:03:35,133 Look at you, boy, you've come of age 56 00:03:35,276 --> 00:03:39,008 and now you're going around saying you're a bad boy 57 00:03:39,348 --> 00:03:43,149 You say that you'll never go to jail 58 00:03:43,252 --> 00:03:47,383 'Cause you're so bad and you cannot fail 59 00:03:47,490 --> 00:03:51,288 Oh bad boy Oh rude boy 60 00:03:51,394 --> 00:03:55,056 Oh bad boy Gots to believe me 61 00:03:55,396 --> 00:04:00,562 Oh bad boy Here is how you fail 62 00:04:00,669 --> 00:04:03,068 Gots to believe me one time 63 00:04:03,173 --> 00:04:07,371 You went to town just to fool around 64 00:04:07,477 --> 00:04:11,343 You met a girl who was wearing a frown 65 00:04:11,448 --> 00:04:15,145 You going around, boasting, feeling bad 66 00:04:15,252 --> 00:04:17,242 Now you're sitting in jail 67 00:04:17,353 --> 00:04:19,514 don't you feel so sad 68 00:04:19,622 --> 00:04:23,059 This is like the crudest form of communication l've ever had to do. 69 00:04:24,261 --> 00:04:25,750 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. 70 00:04:33,701 --> 00:04:35,466 l just saw something. 71 00:04:36,338 --> 00:04:39,307 Was that you? Well, we can see your hand. 72 00:04:39,540 --> 00:04:42,067 l doubt you can stick your whole head through the window 73 00:04:42,177 --> 00:04:44,408 Splotch your face up against the window 74 00:04:44,514 --> 00:04:47,483 We'll know it's the right one, we can at least zoom in on it. 75 00:04:47,483 --> 00:04:48,317 We'll know it's the right one, we can at least zoom in on it. 76 00:04:48,317 --> 00:04:51,617 Kevin Mitnick, the world's most dangerous computer hacker. 77 00:04:53,223 --> 00:04:56,213 My regret about Cyberpunk is talking about Kevin... 78 00:04:56,326 --> 00:05:00,023 and how he was always eating and how he was overweight. 79 00:05:00,196 --> 00:05:03,254 People have really gotten on my case about that. 80 00:05:03,833 --> 00:05:07,132 Some guy came up to me at anAustin book thing and said: 81 00:05:07,237 --> 00:05:09,831 ''Why did you go on and on about Kevin's weight?'' 82 00:05:09,939 --> 00:05:11,372 And he was right. 83 00:05:11,708 --> 00:05:15,769 l did that to the point where it just wasn't tasteful. 84 00:05:16,045 --> 00:05:18,514 Where it was sort of... 85 00:05:19,014 --> 00:05:21,379 just beating an issue that didn't need to be beaten. 86 00:05:21,483 --> 00:05:24,451 For a period after he was arrested, incarcerated... 87 00:05:24,552 --> 00:05:26,180 and released into a halfway house... 88 00:05:26,288 --> 00:05:27,879 l couldn't find a single article... 89 00:05:27,990 --> 00:05:31,687 that talked about him without mentioning his weight. 90 00:05:32,362 --> 00:05:35,661 And the real fascination with Kevin's body... 91 00:05:35,764 --> 00:05:37,699 and its relationship to technology.. 92 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:40,165 is one of the things that absolutely hooked me. 93 00:05:40,269 --> 00:05:44,673 l found a number of articles in Time, Newsweek, and the New York Times... 94 00:05:44,774 --> 00:05:47,901 written by people like Markoff and Joshua Quittner and so on. 95 00:05:48,011 --> 00:05:50,639 And they would say Kevin was in a halfway house... 96 00:05:50,747 --> 00:05:54,444 where he no longer touched a computer, and lost 100 pounds. 97 00:05:55,050 --> 00:05:57,040 As if those two things were connected. 98 00:05:57,420 --> 00:05:59,319 1988, USA Today... 99 00:06:00,689 --> 00:06:02,624 put his picture on the front page... 100 00:06:02,725 --> 00:06:05,718 morphed or superimposed with the image of Darth Vader. 101 00:06:06,862 --> 00:06:10,458 And l thought this is a remarkable combination of two things... 102 00:06:10,567 --> 00:06:13,627 and it's really picking up on the idea of the Dark Side hacker. 103 00:06:13,737 --> 00:06:16,934 lf ever there was someone who fit that description, it was Kevin. 104 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:20,634 The mention of his name was enough to incur the wrath of the authorities. 105 00:06:20,744 --> 00:06:24,612 Over the years, his reputation grew and so did the falsehoods. 106 00:06:24,947 --> 00:06:28,177 ln numerous articles, Kevin was said to have broken into NORAD... 107 00:06:28,283 --> 00:06:30,184 harassed actress Kristy McNichol... 108 00:06:30,286 --> 00:06:33,516 and turned his friends' home phones into payphones. 109 00:06:34,891 --> 00:06:37,052 His beginning was on ham radio. 110 00:06:37,192 --> 00:06:40,161 And on ham radio, it's a close-knit community. 111 00:06:41,831 --> 00:06:46,699 A couple of dozen people at the most on a particular repeater or channel. 112 00:06:47,201 --> 00:06:50,661 And, you know, they would get into challenges. 113 00:06:51,473 --> 00:06:53,634 And, of course, Mitnick would be the underdog. 114 00:06:53,742 --> 00:06:55,766 ''Let's challenge him, let's do this and that.'' 115 00:06:55,879 --> 00:06:59,473 When he met their challenges, they'd start crying and screaming... 116 00:06:59,581 --> 00:07:02,141 as if they were innocentvictims of Kevin's. 117 00:07:02,252 --> 00:07:04,220 This has been the case throughout. 118 00:07:04,319 --> 00:07:07,687 And then people would start unfairly using... 119 00:07:08,158 --> 00:07:09,750 other contacts that they had. 120 00:07:09,858 --> 00:07:14,353 ln one case there was a lieutenant or commander in the LAPD.... 121 00:07:16,132 --> 00:07:18,531 One ham radio operator who was a friend of his... 122 00:07:18,634 --> 00:07:22,536 got him to write a letter saying Kevin was interfering with LAPD communications. 123 00:07:23,004 --> 00:07:25,769 And all sorts of crazy things in his past. 124 00:07:25,875 --> 00:07:25,942 Cyberpunk was published in 1991... 125 00:07:25,942 --> 00:07:28,043 Cyberpunk was published in 1991... 126 00:07:28,043 --> 00:07:30,706 by Katie Hafner and then-husband John Markof... 127 00:07:30,814 --> 00:07:33,180 and relied almost entirely on the words of people... 128 00:07:33,283 --> 00:07:35,216 who Kevin had had a falling out with... 129 00:07:35,317 --> 00:07:37,980 as well as those who didn't know him at all. 130 00:07:38,086 --> 00:07:42,420 Hafner and Markoff never talked to Kevin, because he wanted to be paid for his time. 131 00:07:42,524 --> 00:07:44,788 But it didn't take much to dispel the rumors. 132 00:07:44,894 --> 00:07:46,951 NORAD denied any break-ins... 133 00:07:47,062 --> 00:07:49,725 Kristy McNichol had no idea she was being harassed... 134 00:07:49,833 --> 00:07:52,995 and no evidence ever surfaced of any payphone conversions. 135 00:07:53,100 --> 00:07:54,899 But none of this ever got printed. 136 00:07:55,004 --> 00:07:59,439 Kevin's name was enough to convict him, regardless of the actual evidence. 137 00:08:00,410 --> 00:08:02,435 And then there was Security Pacific. 138 00:08:02,545 --> 00:08:05,377 After being hired, Kevin had once again been terminated... 139 00:08:05,482 --> 00:08:07,641 because of the stories that followed him. 140 00:08:07,750 --> 00:08:10,480 And this resulted in yet another Mitnick myth being born. 141 00:08:11,019 --> 00:08:15,548 There was a Newswire article coming out that stated... 142 00:08:15,891 --> 00:08:19,759 that Security Pacific had lost billions of dollars or something... 143 00:08:19,862 --> 00:08:21,125 in bad loans... 144 00:08:21,230 --> 00:08:23,495 which would have affected their stock price. 145 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:26,125 That was actually tracked down to some error... 146 00:08:26,235 --> 00:08:28,725 that someone made in entering the information. 147 00:08:28,838 --> 00:08:31,170 lt had nothing to do with it not being true... 148 00:08:31,274 --> 00:08:34,504 but it was an error that someone made in entering the information. 149 00:08:34,809 --> 00:08:38,975 lmmediately, because there were employees at Security Pacific... 150 00:08:39,081 --> 00:08:42,745 that knew Kevin Mitnick, including one ham radio operator... 151 00:08:42,850 --> 00:08:46,253 immediately that was attributed to, ''Kevin Mitnick did this.'' 152 00:08:46,422 --> 00:08:48,788 And that's howthat rumor spread. 153 00:08:49,158 --> 00:08:50,648 l'd seen this all before. 154 00:08:50,759 --> 00:08:53,591 Hackers were always getting blamed for things they didn't do. 155 00:08:53,696 --> 00:08:56,221 ln many cases for things that weren't even possible. 156 00:08:56,331 --> 00:08:59,322 lt was obvious somebody had to set the record straight... 157 00:08:59,433 --> 00:09:01,903 somebody who would command respect. 158 00:09:02,303 --> 00:09:04,932 Hackers break into government and business computers... 159 00:09:05,041 --> 00:09:06,836 stealing and destroying information... 160 00:09:06,942 --> 00:09:09,639 raiding bank accounts, running up credit card charges... 161 00:09:09,745 --> 00:09:13,182 extorting money by threats to unleash computer viruses. 162 00:09:14,716 --> 00:09:16,048 Whoa, hold on a second. 163 00:09:16,152 --> 00:09:18,620 What was this guy reading? The Weekly World News? 164 00:09:18,721 --> 00:09:21,918 Hackers don't steal and extort, they play with all kinds of things. 165 00:09:22,024 --> 00:09:24,355 Like those Simplex locks on the FedEx boxes. 166 00:09:24,460 --> 00:09:26,291 ln typical corporate brainpower... 167 00:09:26,394 --> 00:09:29,888 FedEx uses the same combination on every drop box in the country. 168 00:09:29,999 --> 00:09:32,297 lt's fun to stick something really big in there... 169 00:09:32,402 --> 00:09:35,565 that couldn't possibly fit in the chute just to fuck with the guy 170 00:09:35,672 --> 00:09:38,072 And he got some cheap beer out of it too. 171 00:09:38,173 --> 00:09:40,734 lf you go somewhere you're not supposed to be... 172 00:09:40,841 --> 00:09:43,437 and bring something back to show people... 173 00:09:43,546 --> 00:09:46,980 that always struck me as being a whole lot like a panty raid. 174 00:09:47,182 --> 00:09:49,980 And you know, panty raids are really... 175 00:09:50,086 --> 00:09:53,019 in the grandest tradition of this country 176 00:09:53,254 --> 00:09:55,349 Try to make your way in there... 177 00:09:55,456 --> 00:09:59,153 get the stuff, and get back out with it without getting your head cut of. 178 00:09:59,260 --> 00:10:02,129 What we're doing here is we're talking... 179 00:10:02,264 --> 00:10:06,029 on McDonald's external speaker for their drive-thru. 180 00:10:06,500 --> 00:10:08,493 And what we're doing to do that... 181 00:10:08,605 --> 00:10:10,937 is we have a modified ham radio... 182 00:10:11,038 --> 00:10:15,773 meaning it transmits on frequencies other than the ones it was intended to. 183 00:10:16,446 --> 00:10:20,005 ln this case, it's standard business band frequencies. 184 00:10:22,485 --> 00:10:27,081 154.6 megahertz seems to be the standard McDonald's frequency 185 00:10:28,291 --> 00:10:29,519 l'll take your order. 186 00:10:29,625 --> 00:10:32,720 The blonde, would you please kneel down for a second? 187 00:10:32,827 --> 00:10:36,264 Could one of you take off your tops? We'll give you the food for free. 188 00:10:36,365 --> 00:10:38,832 You bastards, you better stop being smart. 189 00:10:38,933 --> 00:10:40,926 -Here comes the manager. -Really? 190 00:10:47,975 --> 00:10:50,774 While corporateAmerica would always be the playground of hackers... 191 00:10:50,879 --> 00:10:54,441 it was mostly about fun and exploration, not damage or profit. 192 00:10:54,649 --> 00:10:56,778 But try telling that to corporateAmerica. 193 00:10:57,153 --> 00:11:00,211 Kevin Mitnick had already paid a heavy price for his curiosity. 194 00:11:00,322 --> 00:11:02,312 He had served a year-and-a-half in 1988... 195 00:11:02,423 --> 00:11:05,019 for logging into DEC computers without authorization. 196 00:11:05,128 --> 00:11:07,494 By simply looking at the VMS operating system... 197 00:11:07,596 --> 00:11:09,995 DEC claimed he caused millions of dollars in damage... 198 00:11:10,099 --> 00:11:13,330 and was sentenced as if he had caused that amount of physical damage. 199 00:11:13,436 --> 00:11:13,735 He was held without bail and was put in solitary confinement for eight months... 200 00:11:13,735 --> 00:11:17,340 He was held without bail and was put in solitary confinement for eight months... 201 00:11:17,340 --> 00:11:20,831 because they thought he could do more damage from the prison payphone. 202 00:11:20,942 --> 00:11:24,344 After his sentence, Kevin served three years of supervised release... 203 00:11:24,447 --> 00:11:26,142 reporting to authorities every month... 204 00:11:26,249 --> 00:11:29,149 and being restricted in where he could go and what he could do. 205 00:11:29,250 --> 00:11:31,980 He only had days to go when federal authorities decided... 206 00:11:32,086 --> 00:11:34,613 he had violated the terms of his supervised release... 207 00:11:34,724 --> 00:11:36,485 by associating with Lewis DePayne... 208 00:11:36,591 --> 00:11:39,686 and accessing someone's voice mail without permission. 209 00:11:39,796 --> 00:11:41,057 lt was nothing. 210 00:11:41,163 --> 00:11:42,528 But it was enough. 211 00:11:42,697 --> 00:11:44,633 Knowing howthe media and the court system... 212 00:11:44,734 --> 00:11:46,599 would crucify him over any offense... 213 00:11:46,701 --> 00:11:49,534 because he could start World War lll from a payphone... 214 00:11:49,639 --> 00:11:51,538 Kevin decided to just walk away. 215 00:11:52,008 --> 00:11:53,303 l was devastated. 216 00:11:54,442 --> 00:11:57,105 We were never far away from each other. 217 00:11:58,779 --> 00:12:01,249 And how was he living on his own... 218 00:12:01,484 --> 00:12:05,716 without his family to share things with? 219 00:12:06,788 --> 00:12:08,221 lt was horrible. 220 00:12:08,322 --> 00:12:09,880 What kind of a life is this? 221 00:12:09,990 --> 00:12:11,754 He is not streetwise. 222 00:12:13,629 --> 00:12:15,322 He's a home person. 223 00:12:15,529 --> 00:12:17,827 Kevin managed to avoid attention. 224 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:21,436 Then, on July 4, 1994, everything changed. 225 00:12:21,903 --> 00:12:23,961 A front page story in the NewYork Times... 226 00:12:24,072 --> 00:12:27,474 turned Kevin Mitnick into a household word all over again. 227 00:12:28,409 --> 00:12:29,706 The evil-looking picture... 228 00:12:29,812 --> 00:12:32,508 the mythical stories about breaking into NORAD computers... 229 00:12:32,615 --> 00:12:34,774 and controlling all the telephones in California... 230 00:12:34,884 --> 00:12:38,716 even the Security Pacific news release tale was retold as fact. 231 00:12:39,754 --> 00:12:43,715 Nobody could figure out howthe story made it onto the front page ofThe Times... 232 00:12:43,826 --> 00:12:46,384 since there was nothing new in the story 233 00:12:46,729 --> 00:12:49,721 But the author was no stranger. John Markoff... 234 00:12:49,831 --> 00:12:53,268 who was quickly becoming a Mitnick expert without ever having met him. 235 00:12:53,369 --> 00:12:56,099 We looked at the story as an amusement back then. 236 00:12:56,205 --> 00:12:59,902 We were planning the first Hackers On Planet Earth conference thatAugust. 237 00:13:00,009 --> 00:13:03,945 The story had gotten so big that we all walked around with Mitnick masks. 238 00:13:05,548 --> 00:13:08,346 They came here to the Hotel Pennsylvania by the hundreds. 239 00:13:08,451 --> 00:13:10,918 These usually anonymous creatures of the cyberworld... 240 00:13:11,019 --> 00:13:13,350 better known as hackers, were holding a convention. 241 00:13:13,456 --> 00:13:16,619 Throughout that weekend, Kevin called in several times to say hi. 242 00:13:16,725 --> 00:13:18,317 We all wished he could be there. 243 00:13:18,427 --> 00:13:20,190 But we knew why he was running. 244 00:13:20,296 --> 00:13:22,990 One of the things Markoff hadn't mentioned in his article... 245 00:13:23,099 --> 00:13:25,465 was the eight months of solitary confinement. 246 00:13:25,567 --> 00:13:28,730 The guy was in solitary confinement for eight months. 247 00:13:31,038 --> 00:13:32,096 Think about it. 248 00:13:32,206 --> 00:13:35,836 l mean, that would definitely change a man. 249 00:13:35,945 --> 00:13:37,706 You would run.You wouldn't want that. 250 00:13:37,812 --> 00:13:42,114 lt was eight months, not for anything he did, but because the judge was scared. 251 00:13:42,216 --> 00:13:44,778 And if you get someone who is that unaware... 252 00:13:44,885 --> 00:13:47,980 of actually what he can do and thinks he can destroy the world. 253 00:13:48,322 --> 00:13:50,451 lf you have someone who has enough power... 254 00:13:50,558 --> 00:13:52,994 to put you in solitary confinement you will run. 255 00:13:53,095 --> 00:13:54,426 lt makes perfect sense to me. 256 00:13:54,528 --> 00:13:56,519 l think it's part hype... 257 00:13:56,899 --> 00:14:01,268 part hysteria, part lack of understanding... 258 00:14:01,571 --> 00:14:03,663 and part fear. 259 00:14:03,773 --> 00:14:06,365 Solitary confinement means no books... 260 00:14:06,475 --> 00:14:08,841 no pencil, no paper, no company. 261 00:14:09,110 --> 00:14:10,874 Nothing to do... 262 00:14:11,013 --> 00:14:13,947 but stare at these small four walls. 263 00:14:14,450 --> 00:14:17,043 He would get out one hour a day.. 264 00:14:18,153 --> 00:14:19,211 and that's it. 265 00:14:19,322 --> 00:14:22,312 You know, he might whistle up some missile launch codes. 266 00:14:22,423 --> 00:14:24,325 That's a big problem with hackers nowadays. 267 00:14:24,427 --> 00:14:28,158 They get a little pissed off and they launch some nukes by whistling. 268 00:14:28,562 --> 00:14:30,464 The fear factor is just insane. 269 00:14:30,566 --> 00:14:33,625 Once or twice or maybe more, l can't even remember... 270 00:14:33,735 --> 00:14:36,899 they didn't even bring him down to the visitors' room. 271 00:14:37,004 --> 00:14:39,235 They took my daughter and l... 272 00:14:39,341 --> 00:14:42,436 upstairs to a floor... 273 00:14:42,543 --> 00:14:44,909 that wasn't occupied at that time. 274 00:14:45,014 --> 00:14:47,846 We were the only ones there and the guard. 275 00:14:47,950 --> 00:14:49,850 They were hovering over him... 276 00:14:49,951 --> 00:14:53,216 as though he was an absolute monster 277 00:14:53,389 --> 00:14:56,846 What could he possibly do, you know? 278 00:14:58,094 --> 00:14:59,652 Could he make... 279 00:15:01,096 --> 00:15:03,394 a computer out of the telephone? 280 00:15:05,067 --> 00:15:07,659 l don't know what they were afraid of! 281 00:15:07,937 --> 00:15:10,302 First of all, he had no desire to. 282 00:15:10,404 --> 00:15:12,931 Secondly, it wouldn't have accomplished anything. 283 00:15:13,042 --> 00:15:15,100 Thirdly, he couldn't do it. 284 00:15:16,445 --> 00:15:19,538 Kevin managed to elude the authorities into the next year. 285 00:15:19,649 --> 00:15:22,379 Then, on February 15, 1995... 286 00:15:22,652 --> 00:15:25,052 they found him in Raleigh, North Carolina. 287 00:15:25,153 --> 00:15:29,022 The FBl's most-wanted computer hacker is behind bars. 288 00:15:29,258 --> 00:15:32,591 Kevin Mitnick was jailed without bond in Raleigh, North Carolina... 289 00:15:32,695 --> 00:15:34,822 where he was arrested this week. 290 00:15:34,931 --> 00:15:38,365 He's accused of breaking into corporate computers nationwide. 291 00:15:38,466 --> 00:15:42,426 Private computer experts say so many other hackers are at work... 292 00:15:42,538 --> 00:15:44,768 that privacy is virtually impossible. 293 00:15:45,441 --> 00:15:47,202 The FBl had managed to track Kevin... 294 00:15:47,308 --> 00:15:50,745 with the help of a mysterious computer expert, Tsutomu Shimomura... 295 00:15:50,846 --> 00:15:53,110 who, along with some friends had managed to track... 296 00:15:53,215 --> 00:15:56,378 Kevin's cellular phone signal to the apartment he was staying in. 297 00:15:56,652 --> 00:16:00,279 One of Shimomura's friends who was there while the signal was being traced... 298 00:16:00,389 --> 00:16:02,322 was none other than John Markoff... 299 00:16:02,423 --> 00:16:05,120 who wrote an even bigger front page story this time. 300 00:16:05,225 --> 00:16:08,456 Sure enough, l opened the door, the next day... 301 00:16:08,798 --> 00:16:12,325 to the hotel room, and there was The Times outside the door. 302 00:16:12,634 --> 00:16:15,604 And l picked it up and l just thought, ''Oh, my God.'' 303 00:16:16,937 --> 00:16:20,340 This article had a new list of things that Kevin had supposedly done... 304 00:16:20,442 --> 00:16:23,469 including breaking into Shimomura's ultra-secure computer... 305 00:16:23,577 --> 00:16:25,604 leaving nasty voice mail messages... 306 00:16:25,715 --> 00:16:28,615 and stealing 20,000 credit card numbers... 307 00:16:28,783 --> 00:16:32,777 something that was mentioned in the first paragraph on the front page. 308 00:16:32,888 --> 00:16:35,879 But 13 paragraphs later, on Page D17... 309 00:16:36,192 --> 00:16:38,524 it was revealed that he had never used any of them. 310 00:16:38,625 --> 00:16:41,822 They were credit card numbers that had been left lying around... 311 00:16:41,931 --> 00:16:44,899 by lnternet Service Provider Netcom for almost a year. 312 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,332 Netcom credit card file, everybody had that file. 313 00:16:48,437 --> 00:16:50,769 lf you didn't have that file, you were a loser. 314 00:16:50,873 --> 00:16:54,399 Hundreds of people had that, they swapped it around like bubble gum. 315 00:16:54,509 --> 00:16:58,139 And then they claim that he's the one who did it, he's the one that had it... 316 00:16:58,245 --> 00:17:01,976 when that was floating around for months before he theoretically had it. 317 00:17:02,082 --> 00:17:04,880 Everybody and his sister's got a million credit card numbers. 318 00:17:04,985 --> 00:17:08,479 What's the big deal? lt's a meaningless thing to have. 319 00:17:09,592 --> 00:17:11,558 What l want to know... 320 00:17:12,428 --> 00:17:14,487 is did he threaten anybody in any way? 321 00:17:14,596 --> 00:17:17,430 Did he claim he was going to do some particular set of harm? 322 00:17:17,531 --> 00:17:21,025 Are there any notebooks that showed he had plans... 323 00:17:21,237 --> 00:17:25,695 to conspire to commit any particular thing... 324 00:17:25,906 --> 00:17:28,067 other than humiliating Tsutomu Shimomura... 325 00:17:28,175 --> 00:17:31,374 which any idiot who's ever met Shimomura could have told him... 326 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:33,913 this was not the guy to mess with. 327 00:17:34,048 --> 00:17:35,517 l met Shimomura once. 328 00:17:35,616 --> 00:17:38,483 The first time l met Shimomura was in front of Congress. 329 00:17:38,586 --> 00:17:41,317 And l was testifying to a congressional subcommittee... 330 00:17:41,423 --> 00:17:43,255 and there's this guy... 331 00:17:43,357 --> 00:17:47,227 in sandals and, like, ragged-ass cutofs. 332 00:17:47,327 --> 00:17:49,261 And the rest of us are done up in ties... 333 00:17:49,365 --> 00:17:51,833 it's me and theAttorney General from New Jersey. 334 00:17:51,932 --> 00:17:55,893 And we're sitting there, giving our best ''Yes, we're in front of Congress'' thing. 335 00:17:56,005 --> 00:18:00,269 And Shimomura is there in this surfer gear. 336 00:18:00,375 --> 00:18:03,277 And he pulls thisATandT cell phone... 337 00:18:03,711 --> 00:18:06,770 pulls it out of the shrink-wrap, finger-hacks it... 338 00:18:06,882 --> 00:18:09,009 and starts monitoring phone calls... 339 00:18:09,116 --> 00:18:11,018 going up and down Capitol Hill... 340 00:18:11,118 --> 00:18:15,056 while an FBl agent is standing at his shoulder listening to him. 341 00:18:15,289 --> 00:18:19,227 l'm like, ''This fucker's got balls the size of durian fruit.'' 342 00:18:19,428 --> 00:18:23,057 You know, this is unbelievable. This is the heaviest guy l've ever seen. 343 00:18:24,231 --> 00:18:26,028 l mean, he's hacking, right? 344 00:18:26,134 --> 00:18:29,104 He was finger-hacking this phone in front of Congress... 345 00:18:29,203 --> 00:18:33,642 with two FBl agents and John Gage from Sun Microsystems... 346 00:18:33,740 --> 00:18:36,971 in the room with him.And l was like, ''Wow,'' you know. 347 00:18:37,077 --> 00:18:38,478 l mean, l was impressed. 348 00:18:38,579 --> 00:18:41,548 lnside of a week, Shimomura and Markoff had signed a book deal... 349 00:18:41,650 --> 00:18:44,413 estimated to be worth $750,000. 350 00:18:44,553 --> 00:18:47,817 lt would be another 19 months before Kevin would even be indicted. 351 00:18:47,923 --> 00:18:51,381 The book, entitledTakedown, was finished by the end of the year. 352 00:18:51,692 --> 00:18:53,855 When l read it, l was aghast. 353 00:18:55,529 --> 00:18:59,557 lt was Tsutomu's eating and skateboarding habits. 354 00:19:00,469 --> 00:19:02,835 l'd been to a lot of the restaurants he'd been to... 355 00:19:02,938 --> 00:19:05,736 but l didn't need a hacker book to tell me about them. 356 00:19:05,839 --> 00:19:07,397 Takedown. Well.... 357 00:19:09,545 --> 00:19:12,376 l don't what l want to say aboutTakedown. 358 00:19:13,615 --> 00:19:15,913 Takedown was not well received. 359 00:19:19,887 --> 00:19:22,881 1996 came and went as did 1997. 360 00:19:23,057 --> 00:19:25,583 Kevin remained in prison without even a bail hearing... 361 00:19:25,692 --> 00:19:28,355 and no prospect of a trial anytime soon. 362 00:19:29,096 --> 00:19:31,826 A25-count indictment accused him of nothing more serious... 363 00:19:31,932 --> 00:19:34,095 than lying on the telephone about who he was... 364 00:19:34,201 --> 00:19:37,468 and copying software which he never tried to sell or even distribute. 365 00:19:37,573 --> 00:19:39,803 Nothing about hacking into Shimomura's machine... 366 00:19:39,909 --> 00:19:42,036 or having 20,000 credit card numbers... 367 00:19:42,144 --> 00:19:45,442 nothing that would have appeared in a John Markoff story. 368 00:19:46,448 --> 00:19:50,111 North Carolina had also charged him with making free cellular phone calls. 369 00:19:50,219 --> 00:19:51,980 Kevin was given a two-year sentence... 370 00:19:52,086 --> 00:19:54,248 more than he would have gotten for manslaughter. 371 00:19:54,355 --> 00:19:57,018 But the federal charges still remained. 372 00:19:57,491 --> 00:19:59,688 They even put him in solitary confinement again... 373 00:19:59,795 --> 00:20:03,891 because the authorities were convinced he'd build a transmitter out of a Walkman... 374 00:20:03,999 --> 00:20:07,400 sneak into the warden's office and monitor his conversations. 375 00:20:07,501 --> 00:20:09,560 The mainstream media made light of it... 376 00:20:09,672 --> 00:20:13,005 claiming Mitnick was put in solitary for having too many cans of tuna. 377 00:20:13,106 --> 00:20:15,736 What everyone seemed to forget was years were going by... 378 00:20:15,844 --> 00:20:17,778 and this guy had yet to be tried. 379 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:20,440 And then, things got a whole lot worse. 380 00:20:20,548 --> 00:20:20,615 June 1998. 381 00:20:20,615 --> 00:20:22,317 June 1998. 382 00:20:22,317 --> 00:20:24,876 A movie version of Takedown was announced. 383 00:20:24,987 --> 00:20:27,421 Skeet Ulrich, who played a killer in Scream... 384 00:20:27,521 --> 00:20:28,785 was set to play Kevin Mitnick. 385 00:20:28,891 --> 00:20:30,825 And Russell Wong from The Joy Luck Club... 386 00:20:30,924 --> 00:20:32,721 would be Tsutomu Shimomura. 387 00:20:32,826 --> 00:20:34,384 lt didn't seem to matter to anyone... 388 00:20:34,496 --> 00:20:37,759 that the real-life Kevin was still rotting in prison without a trial. 389 00:20:37,865 --> 00:20:40,096 According to the script we got our hands on... 390 00:20:40,201 --> 00:20:42,692 he had been found guilty and sentenced already. 391 00:20:42,805 --> 00:20:44,295 The magic of Hollywood. 392 00:20:45,339 --> 00:20:47,204 They even brought Kevin and Tsutomu closer. 393 00:20:47,307 --> 00:20:50,210 ln real life, they'd only met for a few seconds in a courtroom. 394 00:20:50,310 --> 00:20:52,746 ln the Hollywood version they met in a dark alleyway... 395 00:20:52,846 --> 00:20:55,337 where Kevin would proceed to bash Tsutomu on the head... 396 00:20:55,451 --> 00:20:56,816 with a garbage can lid. 397 00:20:57,117 --> 00:20:59,644 We had to tell the world that this was a big mistake. 398 00:20:59,755 --> 00:21:01,482 The truth needed to be told. 399 00:21:01,588 --> 00:21:04,150 And we could either do it ourselves, or use the media. 400 00:21:04,259 --> 00:21:06,854 That's right, the media, democracy's biggest allies... 401 00:21:06,961 --> 00:21:09,487 committed to informing the public no matter the cost. 402 00:21:09,596 --> 00:21:11,190 The true conscience of America. 403 00:21:12,666 --> 00:21:14,932 -Stop pushing! -Get out of the way, Brad. 404 00:21:16,570 --> 00:21:18,096 Watch yourselves! 405 00:21:19,406 --> 00:21:21,375 Come on, guys. 406 00:21:22,743 --> 00:21:24,711 Don't yell at me, everyone's in front of me. 407 00:21:24,813 --> 00:21:26,472 Tell them to come back. 408 00:21:26,582 --> 00:21:28,777 He's coming to the mike! 409 00:21:31,318 --> 00:21:33,288 Would you guys get down? 410 00:21:38,692 --> 00:21:40,355 Watch the mikes! 411 00:21:41,497 --> 00:21:43,192 Let's get out of the way. 412 00:21:48,201 --> 00:21:49,170 Come on. 413 00:21:57,211 --> 00:21:59,112 We decided to do it ourselves. 414 00:21:59,279 --> 00:22:02,339 We found Skeet Ulrich's apartment in New York in a phone book... 415 00:22:02,451 --> 00:22:04,781 and paid a visit to try and get him the real story 416 00:22:04,885 --> 00:22:05,854 But he had moved. 417 00:22:05,952 --> 00:22:10,152 l know, because the doorman let me look at every single name in the book. 418 00:22:10,692 --> 00:22:13,526 So the next stop was Miramax Films on the West Side. 419 00:22:13,627 --> 00:22:17,429 We figured they'd appreciate a chance to correct the mistakes in the screenplay. 420 00:22:17,531 --> 00:22:20,400 And we knew we'd be warmly received because this was Miramax. 421 00:22:20,500 --> 00:22:23,130 The company had distributed Michael Moore's latest film... 422 00:22:23,238 --> 00:22:25,761 you know, the guy who films in everybody's lobby. 423 00:22:30,711 --> 00:22:32,906 Hi, we're looking for Miramax? 424 00:22:35,451 --> 00:22:37,076 -What's your name? -Emmanuel Goldstein. 425 00:22:37,184 --> 00:22:38,173 Who you here to see? 426 00:22:38,287 --> 00:22:40,185 Sorry, you can't film in here. 427 00:22:40,855 --> 00:22:43,221 -You can't film here? -No, it's a landmark. 428 00:22:43,325 --> 00:22:44,758 Sorry, you can't.... 429 00:22:44,858 --> 00:22:48,021 So there's no way you can call upstairs.... 430 00:22:49,365 --> 00:22:51,798 You have to call them, they will call me. 431 00:22:53,402 --> 00:22:54,731 This wasn't going well. 432 00:22:54,970 --> 00:22:57,438 How could a movie company tell us to stop filming? 433 00:22:57,538 --> 00:22:59,403 All we wanted to do was talk to somebody. 434 00:23:03,144 --> 00:23:04,269 What a letdown. 435 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:06,641 His light is on, so he's capturing everything. 436 00:23:06,749 --> 00:23:09,615 So please go outside before he has to call the police. 437 00:23:09,718 --> 00:23:12,585 All right, we don't want that, so we'll go outside.... 438 00:23:12,921 --> 00:23:16,184 We called the office and waited to hear from them, but we never did. 439 00:23:16,289 --> 00:23:19,952 lt was like they were scared of us. Maybe they agreed with Bill Clinton... 440 00:23:20,060 --> 00:23:22,997 that hackers were as one-dimensional as they were in the script. 441 00:23:23,096 --> 00:23:24,998 How could we get them to see the other side? 442 00:23:26,933 --> 00:23:29,836 That night, NewYork City introduced unlimited ride MetroCards. 443 00:23:29,938 --> 00:23:33,066 We decided to find out how long it would take for our cards to reset... 444 00:23:33,173 --> 00:23:35,539 so we could let people in for free. 445 00:23:43,683 --> 00:23:46,174 This is what the hacker world was really all about. 446 00:23:46,288 --> 00:23:47,721 Why didn't they see this? 447 00:23:47,823 --> 00:23:51,416 Why did it always have to be something evil to the people who didn't get it? 448 00:23:55,962 --> 00:23:57,363 We had only one option. 449 00:23:57,531 --> 00:23:59,592 ''For Off The Hook, l recently heard the show... 450 00:23:59,701 --> 00:24:02,192 ''where you got the copy of a script for Takedown. 451 00:24:02,304 --> 00:24:05,603 ''l found it really amusing howthe scriptwriters can take the truth... 452 00:24:05,707 --> 00:24:09,643 ''and not twist it or fabricate it, but just plain lie about what happened.'' 453 00:24:10,010 --> 00:24:13,573 l've heard about Kevin's story, and thanks to Off The Hook... 454 00:24:13,682 --> 00:24:16,173 l heard about this meeting, and l decided to come... 455 00:24:16,285 --> 00:24:17,615 and see how l can help. 456 00:24:17,719 --> 00:24:20,618 lt wasn't from me, it's from somebody else, l knew who that is. 457 00:24:20,721 --> 00:24:24,852 -ls there a good catchiness? -Yeah. ''From Supermax to Miramax: 458 00:24:25,227 --> 00:24:27,457 ''Three-and-a-halfYears With No Trial.'' 459 00:24:28,261 --> 00:24:32,063 And then you can make another one, ''From Miramax to Supermax: 460 00:24:33,201 --> 00:24:34,362 ''And No Trial.'' 461 00:24:34,470 --> 00:24:37,439 When they see two ''Free Kevin'' stickers... 462 00:24:37,538 --> 00:24:42,134 when they see 10, 20, 100, they're gonna say, ''Who the hell is Kevin?'' 463 00:24:42,242 --> 00:24:44,608 They'll keep saying it until somebody answers them. 464 00:24:44,711 --> 00:24:48,547 One or two people that know more about it are one or two people more on our side. 465 00:24:48,650 --> 00:24:51,881 Those two people get two people who get two people.That's how it is. 466 00:24:51,987 --> 00:24:54,285 We're gonna be in their face every step of the way. 467 00:24:54,387 --> 00:24:57,721 lf it comes to showing this thing on the screen, in theaters... 468 00:24:57,826 --> 00:24:59,519 we're going to be there, too. 469 00:24:59,626 --> 00:25:03,086 l mean, what we're doing now isn't going to be finished... 470 00:25:03,198 --> 00:25:06,133 until Kevin has his trial, until Kevin is out. 471 00:25:06,233 --> 00:25:08,634 ''Guilty by Hollywood'' or something like that. 472 00:25:08,737 --> 00:25:11,035 -That's a good one. -l like that. 473 00:25:12,105 --> 00:25:14,701 Yeah, l did look at the script, and.... 474 00:25:15,041 --> 00:25:16,101 l don't know. 475 00:25:16,211 --> 00:25:20,509 lt's a shame and it definitely shouldn't be something out there... 476 00:25:20,615 --> 00:25:23,105 for someone who knows very little about Kevin... 477 00:25:23,218 --> 00:25:27,211 to then see this movie and have ideas in their head that are untrue. 478 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,118 We had tried talking to them and they wouldn't listen. 479 00:25:30,223 --> 00:25:34,025 Now, by having a demonstration outside their offices, they would have to listen. 480 00:25:34,127 --> 00:25:36,857 But we were hackers. What did we know about demonstrations? 481 00:25:36,963 --> 00:25:38,557 Just that they can turn into riots... 482 00:25:38,665 --> 00:25:41,727 especially when the Mayor bans demonstrations outside City Hall... 483 00:25:41,836 --> 00:25:44,169 and the cops shoot people a lot more. 484 00:25:44,337 --> 00:25:47,307 We needed guidance, someone with experience. 485 00:25:47,509 --> 00:25:49,567 We looked all over town for an activist. 486 00:25:49,678 --> 00:25:52,738 Maybe one of those gray-haired hippies from the '60s. 487 00:25:52,846 --> 00:25:55,009 We found one. Sort of. 488 00:26:05,559 --> 00:26:08,257 What's it like demonstrating here? Do you get harassed? 489 00:26:08,363 --> 00:26:11,490 They hate our guts because they don't want the truth to come out. 490 00:26:11,598 --> 00:26:14,260 Why do you think there isn't more activism? 491 00:26:14,367 --> 00:26:17,269 Because people don't care, they're scared... 492 00:26:17,471 --> 00:26:21,634 they're afraid they'll get into trouble. l can understand it. 493 00:26:21,741 --> 00:26:24,608 But we still have to take a stand, afraid or not. 494 00:26:24,711 --> 00:26:27,703 We have to at least give it a try, we have to give it a shot. 495 00:26:27,816 --> 00:26:31,775 -Has this cop been giving you any trouble? -No, he hasn't bothered me. 496 00:26:31,885 --> 00:26:35,323 And we have a President that wants to suck their brains out. 497 00:26:35,958 --> 00:26:37,892 That bothers a lot of people, but.... 498 00:26:37,991 --> 00:26:42,894 Anybody that's decent gets bothered when a little child is tortured to death. 499 00:26:43,096 --> 00:26:45,498 Or when a President is sucking their brains out. 500 00:26:45,601 --> 00:26:46,863 Yeah. 501 00:26:47,067 --> 00:26:49,058 He wasn't exactly what we had in mind. 502 00:26:49,171 --> 00:26:52,402 l got a real earful about the evils of homosexuals and communists. 503 00:26:52,507 --> 00:26:55,806 But in the end, he told us the one thing we needed to hear 504 00:26:55,911 --> 00:26:59,174 When you demonstrate, make sure you're in the right. 505 00:26:59,548 --> 00:27:03,038 And that's the one thing we were sure of: We were right. 506 00:27:06,288 --> 00:27:09,314 The day arrived. We had no idea what to expect. 507 00:27:15,462 --> 00:27:18,022 We just stood there for a while, not knowing what to do. 508 00:27:18,133 --> 00:27:20,656 Our converted phone company van got more attention than us. 509 00:27:20,769 --> 00:27:22,930 My name is Noah Kenickstein, l'm an attorney. 510 00:27:23,038 --> 00:27:25,903 -For Miramax? -No. For you all! 511 00:27:26,008 --> 00:27:27,566 l didn't even know. 512 00:27:27,674 --> 00:27:31,337 -l'm a lawyer. l'm representing you all. -Okay. Great. 513 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,579 So, no one's getting arrested, right? 514 00:27:34,914 --> 00:27:37,076 -l didn't plan on it. -Good. 515 00:27:37,550 --> 00:27:40,112 The National Lawyers Guild sent someone to protect us... 516 00:27:40,221 --> 00:27:41,915 and that was the turning point. 517 00:27:42,022 --> 00:27:45,423 Things began to come together. Even members of the media showed up. 518 00:27:45,527 --> 00:27:49,054 lt seemed like everyone except Miramax was taking this seriously. 519 00:27:49,730 --> 00:27:53,758 We learned that when you stand outside a film studio's offices with picket signs... 520 00:27:53,867 --> 00:27:55,028 people notice. 521 00:28:04,346 --> 00:28:07,611 These folks are gonna put on a little demonstration here. 522 00:28:07,714 --> 00:28:10,583 They're gonna be marching around. l thought l would tell you. 523 00:28:10,684 --> 00:28:12,846 -You could tell the.... -l'll tell the precinct. 524 00:28:12,952 --> 00:28:16,820 Tell the precinct, and tell them l'm a lawyer lt's nice and calm. 525 00:28:17,125 --> 00:28:18,922 No problems at all. 526 00:28:19,027 --> 00:28:22,019 But they're having a little.... They'll be marching around. 527 00:28:22,130 --> 00:28:24,028 -l've got it. -l wanted to tell you that. 528 00:28:24,132 --> 00:28:27,588 l appreciate thatvery much. Could you tell me approximately how many? 529 00:28:27,701 --> 00:28:31,432 l would say there's gonna be.... 50 people, Patty? 530 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,173 50 to 60, maximum 50. 531 00:28:38,144 --> 00:28:42,308 -What area are you doing it in? -ln front of Miramax Films. 532 00:28:42,415 --> 00:28:45,284 They're demonstrating about a movie that they're making. 533 00:28:45,385 --> 00:28:47,651 Thanks a lot, l appreciate you stopping me. 534 00:28:47,756 --> 00:28:49,189 Everybody's nice and calm. 535 00:28:49,289 --> 00:28:52,852 -l'll tell them that.Thanks for the advice. -Okay, no problem. 536 00:28:53,693 --> 00:28:55,959 No, they're not gonna come on purpose. 537 00:28:56,064 --> 00:28:57,723 People are, you know.... 538 00:28:57,932 --> 00:29:00,627 You're talking about suits. 539 00:29:00,736 --> 00:29:03,671 They don't give a fuck. You got to go hand it to them. 540 00:29:03,770 --> 00:29:06,000 Don't harass the people who walk by 541 00:29:06,106 --> 00:29:08,633 Some people have crises going on in their lives. 542 00:29:08,742 --> 00:29:11,233 They can't be bothered with our problems. 543 00:29:12,078 --> 00:29:15,948 Do you have a permit? Who's in charge out here? 544 00:29:16,518 --> 00:29:18,451 Do you all have a permit? 545 00:29:18,553 --> 00:29:21,213 As long as you don't block the front of the entrance. 546 00:29:21,323 --> 00:29:23,814 You stay to the side, please.Thank you. 547 00:29:25,925 --> 00:29:29,656 They can walk in front. The cops have been-- 548 00:29:29,765 --> 00:29:33,665 As long as you don't block the entrance, l don't have no problem. 549 00:29:33,769 --> 00:29:36,237 They have a FirstAmendment right. 550 00:29:36,336 --> 00:29:38,567 Don't block the entrance. That's all l'm saying. 551 00:29:38,673 --> 00:29:41,836 lt's ringing. l got put in voice mail, guess they got too many calls. 552 00:29:41,942 --> 00:29:45,001 This one's reaching voice mail. l'll leave a message. 553 00:29:45,211 --> 00:29:48,478 Hi, this is the protest outside. Are you guys there? 554 00:29:48,682 --> 00:29:51,083 lf you get this, come outside. We're right down here. 555 00:29:51,184 --> 00:29:52,653 l see someone. 556 00:29:53,153 --> 00:29:56,488 All right. Maybe you'll pick up the phone or come downstairs later. 557 00:29:56,589 --> 00:29:58,182 You calling the Publicity Department? 558 00:29:58,291 --> 00:30:01,260 No, the main number. l got a hold of them yesterday... 559 00:30:01,363 --> 00:30:04,161 and l asked for directions to the protest... 560 00:30:04,266 --> 00:30:08,223 and they told me they couldn't get me from where l was at to here. 561 00:30:08,336 --> 00:30:11,362 l said, ''Okay, l'll call you back tomorrow when l'm out front.'' 562 00:30:11,471 --> 00:30:14,442 -l see them, they've got their heads out. -There's one. 563 00:30:14,709 --> 00:30:16,106 They're not answering the phones. 564 00:30:16,211 --> 00:30:18,509 Waving banners that said ''Free Kevin''... 565 00:30:18,613 --> 00:30:20,511 and holding ''Stop Miramax'' posters... 566 00:30:20,615 --> 00:30:22,877 the small butvocal crowd of protesters... 567 00:30:22,982 --> 00:30:26,351 stood outside Miramax Pictures' New York offices yesterday. 568 00:30:26,452 --> 00:30:29,012 At issue: this script, entitledTakedown... 569 00:30:29,124 --> 00:30:33,083 the story of the nation's most notorious computer hacker, Kevin Mitnick. 570 00:30:33,193 --> 00:30:35,923 Mitnick is currently being held in prison without bail... 571 00:30:36,029 --> 00:30:38,088 awaiting trial on computer crimes. 572 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,226 lt's a script these Kevin Mitnick supporters say is libelous... 573 00:30:41,336 --> 00:30:44,066 and would hurt Mitnick's chances of getting a fair trial. 574 00:30:44,172 --> 00:30:46,298 lt might influence the jury 575 00:30:46,406 --> 00:30:49,740 lt might change a lot of things in a negative way. 576 00:30:49,845 --> 00:30:53,872 He's trying so hard to at least get a trial and then this comes up... 577 00:30:53,980 --> 00:30:55,914 where he's constantly being defamed. 578 00:30:57,451 --> 00:31:01,682 You never know who you might see when you're standing outside a film studio. 579 00:31:02,589 --> 00:31:04,923 Kevin Bacon had no interest whatsoever. 580 00:31:07,229 --> 00:31:09,595 But radio personality Lazlow did. 581 00:31:09,698 --> 00:31:13,361 With the proliferation of the news... 582 00:31:13,468 --> 00:31:15,798 TV news journalism like Primetime Live... 583 00:31:15,903 --> 00:31:19,567 and these shows that completely distort the facts... 584 00:31:21,009 --> 00:31:25,944 and shows like 60 Minutes being forced to go in the same direction... 585 00:31:27,449 --> 00:31:29,314 people don't knowthe facts about the case. 586 00:31:29,415 --> 00:31:32,682 They don't knowthe facts about hackers. 587 00:31:33,555 --> 00:31:36,217 l'd say that hackers... 588 00:31:36,691 --> 00:31:38,884 are the communists of the 1990s... 589 00:31:38,992 --> 00:31:42,587 where, basically, if anybody says ''hacker''... 590 00:31:42,695 --> 00:31:46,258 all of a sudden you've got this demon 666 across your head. 591 00:31:46,366 --> 00:31:48,961 Nobody actually understands any of it. 592 00:31:50,939 --> 00:31:54,534 What l do in my part, on the radio... 593 00:31:55,009 --> 00:31:58,207 with my syndicated show, is try to get people to open their brains... 594 00:31:58,313 --> 00:32:02,682 because l talk to a lot of old people, because l'm on a lot of news talk stations. 595 00:32:02,784 --> 00:32:07,242 When l can, l put Emmanuel or Bernie S., or anybody else on there... 596 00:32:07,355 --> 00:32:11,414 to talk about the state of what's going on, because nobody else will cover it. 597 00:32:11,526 --> 00:32:13,685 The people who cover it in the mainstream media... 598 00:32:13,795 --> 00:32:16,318 do so for profit, like the guy that wrote the book. 599 00:32:16,431 --> 00:32:20,866 The demonstrators say they have sent a copy of this illicitly obtained script... 600 00:32:20,969 --> 00:32:24,132 to Kevin Mitnick in jail, and that he absolutely hates it. 601 00:32:24,239 --> 00:32:27,037 Miramax's parent, Disney, may not like it either. 602 00:32:27,142 --> 00:32:28,769 The controversy comes on the heels... 603 00:32:28,875 --> 00:32:31,605 of the dumping of $43 million in Disney stock... 604 00:32:31,711 --> 00:32:33,576 by the Texas Board of Education. 605 00:32:33,682 --> 00:32:37,309 The board's complaint: Miramax films have too much sex and violence. 606 00:32:37,419 --> 00:32:41,012 Miramax distorts the facts! 607 00:32:45,393 --> 00:32:48,294 Was that Harvey Weinstein, President of Miramax? 608 00:32:48,394 --> 00:32:49,488 He walked right by us. 609 00:32:49,596 --> 00:32:52,430 He didn't even get a ''Stop Miramax'' brochure? 610 00:32:52,732 --> 00:32:55,166 Of course we had a brochure for Harvey. 611 00:32:55,501 --> 00:32:57,596 Okay, l'll talk to you later. Bye. 612 00:32:59,272 --> 00:33:01,365 -What did they say? -l don't know. 613 00:33:02,210 --> 00:33:04,508 There she is. That's the one who answered the phone. 614 00:33:04,612 --> 00:33:06,202 She hung up on me yesterday 615 00:33:06,314 --> 00:33:07,679 l got through. 616 00:33:07,780 --> 00:33:10,114 They waved. Did you see them wave? 617 00:33:10,218 --> 00:33:11,980 Miramax distorts the facts! 618 00:33:12,086 --> 00:33:14,555 They said if you use a bullhorn... 619 00:33:14,654 --> 00:33:18,114 or obstruct people's walkways, you have to have a permit. 620 00:33:18,259 --> 00:33:20,284 Miramax distorts the facts! 621 00:33:20,626 --> 00:33:23,618 lf you continue to use that, l'm gonna have to call the cops. 622 00:33:26,201 --> 00:33:30,797 l think that three years is a long time to be held without actually having a trial. 623 00:33:30,939 --> 00:33:33,030 And l think that what Miramax is doing... 624 00:33:33,141 --> 00:33:37,601 is going to jeopardize his right to have a free and honest trial. 625 00:33:38,211 --> 00:33:40,577 So that's why l'm out here protesting. 626 00:33:40,780 --> 00:33:41,942 Thank you. 627 00:33:44,019 --> 00:33:47,682 They all were aware of the thing in front of the building in NewYork City. 628 00:33:47,820 --> 00:33:50,050 They talked about it on the set, asked me about it. 629 00:33:50,156 --> 00:33:51,750 They said ''Did you talk to Emmanuel? That's great.'' 630 00:33:51,858 --> 00:33:53,759 They were waving. They think it's fantastic. 631 00:33:53,862 --> 00:33:56,557 And they all want Free Kevin stickers. The whole crew. 632 00:33:56,663 --> 00:33:59,722 lf you give me some, l will send it to them. They will put them on their cars. 633 00:33:59,834 --> 00:34:00,035 Hello, sir. Do you know who Kevin Mitnick is? 634 00:34:00,035 --> 00:34:02,435 Hello, sir. Do you know who Kevin Mitnick is? 635 00:34:02,435 --> 00:34:03,596 No, l do not. 636 00:34:03,703 --> 00:34:08,074 Computer hacker who's been in jail for three-and-a-half years without a trial. 637 00:34:08,275 --> 00:34:10,869 Miramax has decided to make a movie about him. 638 00:34:10,978 --> 00:34:15,313 The script is false. lt makes him out to be a violent racist... 639 00:34:15,983 --> 00:34:17,280 which he is not. 640 00:34:17,385 --> 00:34:19,284 l want to know what you think about it. 641 00:34:19,387 --> 00:34:20,751 When are they doing the film? 642 00:34:20,855 --> 00:34:23,722 -They start shooting in a few weeks. -Kevin Mitnick is great. 643 00:34:23,824 --> 00:34:27,317 -How do l find out the truth? -They should take him out of prison. 644 00:34:27,429 --> 00:34:29,896 -Hold on, l want to talk to you. -What's that? 645 00:34:29,998 --> 00:34:34,434 My main thing is the only reason he ended up running afoul of the law... 646 00:34:34,536 --> 00:34:37,699 is because people don't have access to communications. 647 00:34:37,806 --> 00:34:42,436 All you got is big corporations like Miramax with access to communications. 648 00:34:42,543 --> 00:34:44,375 FirstAmendment! Yeah! 649 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:46,405 This is inAmerica. 650 00:34:46,514 --> 00:34:49,505 -He was in jail three years without a trial? -He's still in jail. 651 00:34:49,617 --> 00:34:52,414 l saw something about this on CNBC on Friday. 652 00:34:52,518 --> 00:34:54,181 This happens a lot, though. 653 00:34:54,289 --> 00:34:58,349 You always have unauthorized biographies and stuff like that. 654 00:34:58,460 --> 00:35:00,690 Where it's like, you have an autobiography... 655 00:35:00,795 --> 00:35:03,059 you have an authorized biography. 656 00:35:03,164 --> 00:35:07,099 -This is sort of like an unauthorized-- -This is going to be big. 657 00:35:07,202 --> 00:35:10,068 -He hasn't had a trial yet? -Hasn't had a trial yet. 658 00:35:10,572 --> 00:35:14,668 Not only that, in the movie, they already wrote that he had a trial. 659 00:35:15,409 --> 00:35:18,469 -You ever hear of Kevin Mitnick? -No. Who's that? 660 00:35:18,579 --> 00:35:21,708 Well, if you're walking away, l really can't.... 661 00:35:23,818 --> 00:35:26,581 How did you guys get a hold of the script? 662 00:35:27,021 --> 00:35:28,579 Okay. All right. 663 00:35:31,893 --> 00:35:35,454 You're a lawyer. lsn't it illegal if they're gonna slander him? 664 00:35:35,563 --> 00:35:38,030 Can't they try and stop them on legal grounds? 665 00:35:38,132 --> 00:35:40,623 That's not right.They have to put a waiver-- 666 00:35:40,735 --> 00:35:44,465 l think they should hold the film until after he's had a fair trial. 667 00:35:44,873 --> 00:35:47,273 l mean, it happens. lt happened, unfortunately 668 00:35:47,375 --> 00:35:49,137 You know, l don't think it should be.... 669 00:35:49,244 --> 00:35:53,043 Obviously, it's probably not legal to have a lawsuit against Miramax. 670 00:35:53,148 --> 00:35:56,583 l think they should have to wait until he's had a fair trial. 671 00:35:56,684 --> 00:35:58,652 And also they shouldn't use his real name. 672 00:35:58,753 --> 00:36:01,585 lf they want to change the facts, they should change the name. 673 00:36:01,688 --> 00:36:04,885 -Make it a fictional story. -Three-and-a-half years is a long time. 674 00:36:04,992 --> 00:36:08,224 Think about what you've done for the last three-and-a-half years. 675 00:36:08,329 --> 00:36:12,766 And imagine being in jail while all that stuf was happening. 676 00:36:13,501 --> 00:36:17,766 For just that. Just for copying software. 677 00:36:18,672 --> 00:36:20,163 l've copied software. 678 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,931 -What did he do? He hacked. -He hacked. 679 00:36:23,311 --> 00:36:25,175 l would like to know your opinion... 680 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,681 on the slandering in this film. 681 00:36:31,418 --> 00:36:34,181 Miramax sucks. So, like, Free Kevin! 682 00:36:37,791 --> 00:36:41,523 l can't talk shit about a movie l haven't seen or read the script of. 683 00:36:42,197 --> 00:36:44,630 But the one relevant thing that l could say.. 684 00:36:44,731 --> 00:36:48,963 is it seems to me there is a witch-hunt sort of hysterical mentality.. 685 00:36:49,070 --> 00:36:51,061 vis-a-vis hacking, you know. 686 00:36:51,172 --> 00:36:55,074 People are very quick to fly off the handle and condemn as terrorists... 687 00:36:55,577 --> 00:36:59,445 people who are, you know, exploring a newtechnology landscape... 688 00:36:59,547 --> 00:37:01,708 in a way that they don't understand. 689 00:37:01,983 --> 00:37:05,009 -Definitely. -That's as far as l can go not having seen it. 690 00:37:05,119 --> 00:37:07,882 Not only did we find a receptive bunch at local theaters... 691 00:37:07,989 --> 00:37:09,980 they even started to do our work for us. 692 00:37:10,090 --> 00:37:12,559 New York was great. But it was only the start. 693 00:37:12,559 --> 00:37:13,360 New York was great. But it was only the start. 694 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:17,422 We had to travel to get to the right people. So we put together a camera crew... 695 00:37:17,532 --> 00:37:21,092 and made sure none of us had anything planned for the next several weeks. 696 00:37:21,202 --> 00:37:24,103 We charted out a course, and headed to the airport. 697 00:37:24,204 --> 00:37:27,663 That's where we got our economy-sized rental car with unlimited mileage. 698 00:37:27,775 --> 00:37:30,175 The plan was to go to Wilmington, North Carolina... 699 00:37:30,277 --> 00:37:32,576 where filming for Takedown was about to begin. 700 00:37:32,679 --> 00:37:35,648 On the way, we figured we'd make a detour and stop at Defcon... 701 00:37:35,750 --> 00:37:37,945 the annual hacker convention in Las Vegas. 702 00:37:38,052 --> 00:37:40,748 lf we were going to do that, we should stop in San Diego... 703 00:37:40,855 --> 00:37:42,413 to say hi to Tsutomu Shimomura... 704 00:37:42,523 --> 00:37:45,617 and maybe convince him to stop using Kevin Mitnick as a cash cow. 705 00:37:45,726 --> 00:37:48,695 And if we did that, it would be rude not to visit John Markof... 706 00:37:48,795 --> 00:37:52,253 to ask him to inject some accuracy into his stories about Kevin. 707 00:37:52,367 --> 00:37:55,494 Since we were suddenly adding 10,000 miles to this rental car... 708 00:37:55,603 --> 00:37:57,764 we might as well visit some of the corporations... 709 00:37:57,871 --> 00:38:01,431 who were claiming Kevin Mitnick cost them millions of dollars in damages... 710 00:38:01,541 --> 00:38:03,304 just to see what the hell they were talking about. 711 00:38:06,014 --> 00:38:09,414 There's something about Pennsylvania. l call it the Prison State. 712 00:38:09,516 --> 00:38:12,543 That's because they seem to have prisons everywhere you look. 713 00:38:14,121 --> 00:38:18,320 And almost everyone l know who's gone to prison seems to wind up in Pennsylvania. 714 00:38:18,425 --> 00:38:19,449 Weird. 715 00:38:20,327 --> 00:38:22,489 Besides, every time l get pulled over by a cop... 716 00:38:22,597 --> 00:38:26,465 l seem to find myself in the Prison State. l knew l'd better be careful. 717 00:38:26,567 --> 00:38:29,559 Let's not get off on the wrong foot, Pennsylvania's great. 718 00:38:29,670 --> 00:38:33,333 Home of such landmarks as the Liberty Bell, lndependence Hall... 719 00:38:34,108 --> 00:38:37,873 that little surveillance camera above lndependence Hall... 720 00:38:41,148 --> 00:38:45,277 and the house where Thomas Jefferson signed the Declaration of lndependence... 721 00:38:45,385 --> 00:38:48,913 just down the block from theAfro-American Museum and its new neighbor. 722 00:38:51,125 --> 00:38:55,356 A maximum-security federal prison right in the middle of Philadelphia. 723 00:38:56,030 --> 00:38:57,621 Howtimes change. 724 00:39:00,702 --> 00:39:03,170 They say it's illegal to take pictures of any prison... 725 00:39:03,271 --> 00:39:06,797 even those under construction, even those right in the middle of a city 726 00:39:06,907 --> 00:39:09,342 We couldn't find a law anywhere that backed this up... 727 00:39:09,443 --> 00:39:11,139 but try taking a picture of a prison... 728 00:39:11,244 --> 00:39:14,237 without getting threatened by some prison guard or cop. 729 00:39:14,349 --> 00:39:16,010 Here, look at this part. 730 00:39:16,351 --> 00:39:20,447 Maybe there are subtle details that will lead to a prison uprising some day 731 00:39:29,931 --> 00:39:33,492 l think fully half of the people in federal prison, if not more... 732 00:39:33,934 --> 00:39:35,367 shouldn't be there. 733 00:39:35,670 --> 00:39:37,695 lt's notviolent criminals. 734 00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:42,367 Drug crimes. Somebody gets a mandatory 10 years... 735 00:39:42,476 --> 00:39:45,206 for selling $800 worth of LSD. 736 00:39:45,612 --> 00:39:49,014 That's not right either. That's the way the federal system works. 737 00:39:49,117 --> 00:39:50,277 lt's just not right. 738 00:39:50,385 --> 00:39:54,788 l knowthe state of California has more prisoners than SouthAfrica. 739 00:39:55,722 --> 00:39:59,351 lncarceration is a big business. l think that's part of the reason. 740 00:40:01,161 --> 00:40:04,527 There is less and less tolerance on the part of the public... 741 00:40:04,632 --> 00:40:06,565 for people who have transgressed the rules. 742 00:40:06,666 --> 00:40:11,536 We have a huge prison population. This gets into other questions. 743 00:40:11,905 --> 00:40:15,170 Putting a computer hacker in with sex offenders and murderers... 744 00:40:15,275 --> 00:40:18,005 is probably the worst thing you can possibly do... 745 00:40:18,112 --> 00:40:19,840 to somebody who has... 746 00:40:21,782 --> 00:40:24,478 not murdered, is not a violent criminal! 747 00:40:24,585 --> 00:40:27,713 Somebody who's a technological.... Who's gone over the edge. 748 00:40:27,822 --> 00:40:30,688 Then, again, we have to define what we mean. 749 00:40:30,791 --> 00:40:34,556 We need a new classification system for technological law. 750 00:40:34,661 --> 00:40:37,755 ln one of my books l talked about setting up a court system... 751 00:40:37,864 --> 00:40:42,268 especially for technology where the people that were prosecuting... 752 00:40:42,369 --> 00:40:44,998 and the judges and the people involved in the cases... 753 00:40:45,106 --> 00:40:47,335 would have some technological basis... 754 00:40:48,543 --> 00:40:51,170 to evaluate and try the case in a reasonable manner... 755 00:40:51,277 --> 00:40:54,373 and to come up with an alternative sentencing system... 756 00:40:54,481 --> 00:40:56,643 that reflected more the nature of the crime. 757 00:40:57,117 --> 00:41:00,610 lf you're exposed to people like that for too long, you change with them. 758 00:41:00,721 --> 00:41:02,518 You become one of them. 759 00:41:03,690 --> 00:41:07,092 Next thing you know you'll be locked away again for doing what they do. 760 00:41:07,195 --> 00:41:08,661 One night... 761 00:41:12,467 --> 00:41:15,902 ...l was in my cell in a minimum-security facility, Bucks County Prison. 762 00:41:16,003 --> 00:41:19,063 Two guards stormed in... 763 00:41:19,672 --> 00:41:22,199 and flipped my bed upside down... 764 00:41:22,742 --> 00:41:26,907 and locked me in handcufs and started rummaging through my storage locker.. 765 00:41:27,081 --> 00:41:29,514 demanding to know where my computer was. 766 00:41:30,885 --> 00:41:33,911 l'm like, ''l don't have a computer here. What are you talking about?'' 767 00:41:34,021 --> 00:41:36,284 They were squeezing the toothpaste out of my tube... 768 00:41:36,389 --> 00:41:39,916 ostensibly looking for a computer or whatever they were looking for. 769 00:41:40,027 --> 00:41:41,221 lt was bizarre! 770 00:41:43,364 --> 00:41:46,628 But Pennsylvania was more than prisons, it was a place of learning. 771 00:41:46,733 --> 00:41:50,135 And theAge Expo was where thousands of senior citizens learned... 772 00:41:50,237 --> 00:41:52,762 that corporateAmerica really cared about them. 773 00:41:59,547 --> 00:42:02,481 The guy representing BellAtlantic was the most sincere of all. 774 00:42:02,583 --> 00:42:04,516 How could you not trust a fox? 775 00:42:04,619 --> 00:42:08,213 Freddie the Phone-Fraud Fox was passing corporate numbers to the seniors: 776 00:42:08,322 --> 00:42:10,882 Over $4 billion in phone fraud every year. 777 00:42:11,291 --> 00:42:14,989 Freddie said most of that was because of evil computer hackers. 778 00:42:15,096 --> 00:42:16,563 And l met him. 779 00:42:19,900 --> 00:42:22,994 Freddie knew words like ''digit'' would only confuse older people. 780 00:42:23,103 --> 00:42:25,664 lt made more sense to say things like ''ten-number number.'' 781 00:42:25,773 --> 00:42:28,239 lt means they will have to dial the area code... 782 00:42:28,342 --> 00:42:31,606 along with their seven-digit number each time they place a call... 783 00:42:31,710 --> 00:42:36,045 within and between 215, 610... 784 00:42:36,449 --> 00:42:39,146 and the new 267 for 215... 785 00:42:39,452 --> 00:42:42,786 and the 484 for 610 area code. 786 00:42:43,324 --> 00:42:47,726 You give them out in blocks of 10,000 and people that get these blocks of 10,000... 787 00:42:47,827 --> 00:42:51,355 end up using 300 numbers and all the others are tied up wasted. 788 00:42:51,998 --> 00:42:56,766 Easy listening Never mind the world outside 789 00:42:57,103 --> 00:43:02,201 Easy listening Famine, war, and genocide 790 00:43:02,577 --> 00:43:07,411 Easy listening Forget the loony on the loose 791 00:43:07,614 --> 00:43:12,847 Easy listening Rising crime and child abuse 792 00:43:13,521 --> 00:43:15,614 lgnore the poisoned atmosphere 793 00:43:15,922 --> 00:43:18,221 Open up another beer 794 00:43:18,358 --> 00:43:22,728 The media feeds you every day what to think and say 795 00:43:23,797 --> 00:43:24,958 We went back... 796 00:43:28,101 --> 00:43:29,295 ...to a familiar place. 797 00:43:32,907 --> 00:43:34,771 Everything was just as we left it... 798 00:43:35,141 --> 00:43:37,076 only it was about 90 degrees warmer. 799 00:43:37,945 --> 00:43:41,039 But you could still feel the chill after four-and-a-half years. 800 00:43:43,650 --> 00:43:46,483 lt was surprising how nobody tried to stop us from filming. 801 00:43:46,585 --> 00:43:49,317 So we filmed everything. The medium-security facility... 802 00:43:49,422 --> 00:43:50,947 the minimum-security prison camp... 803 00:43:51,056 --> 00:43:54,516 the sign that lets minimum-security prisoners know when they've escaped... 804 00:43:54,628 --> 00:43:56,597 and Unicor, the slave-labor office... 805 00:43:56,697 --> 00:44:00,030 where prisoners make furniture for the government for pennies a day. 806 00:44:03,304 --> 00:44:04,635 We almost made it out. 807 00:44:12,313 --> 00:44:15,646 lt was the first time we had ever gotten pulled over by prison cops. 808 00:44:19,253 --> 00:44:21,447 How could we not drop in on our friends at CERT... 809 00:44:21,554 --> 00:44:23,385 the Computer Emergency Response Team? 810 00:44:23,489 --> 00:44:26,460 They tell the world when there's a threat to computer networks. 811 00:44:26,559 --> 00:44:28,322 They'd back us up and tell the world... 812 00:44:28,429 --> 00:44:30,795 that Kevin Mitnick posed no threat at all to NORAD... 813 00:44:30,898 --> 00:44:33,195 Kristy McNichol, or theAmerican way of life. 814 00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:35,369 We thought computer people worked odd hours... 815 00:44:35,469 --> 00:44:37,630 but these guys apparently took Saturdays off. 816 00:44:37,737 --> 00:44:41,538 We asked the security guard to come down and let us leave a pamphlet or two. 817 00:44:44,077 --> 00:44:47,239 Something must get triggered whenever you say Mitnick's name. 818 00:44:47,347 --> 00:44:50,340 We were meeting far too many cops in so brief a period of time. 819 00:44:50,451 --> 00:44:52,782 But at least Pennsylvania was living up to its name. 820 00:44:57,190 --> 00:45:00,626 We explained why we were there but got the message we expected. 821 00:45:01,094 --> 00:45:02,289 You're not welcome. 822 00:45:03,396 --> 00:45:04,625 We're used to that. 823 00:45:04,731 --> 00:45:08,463 ln the event that you should maybe happen to come again... 824 00:45:09,302 --> 00:45:10,793 if you are not welcome... 825 00:45:11,338 --> 00:45:13,532 and l find out that you are not welcome... 826 00:45:13,940 --> 00:45:18,036 you will be exactly where Kevin is... 827 00:45:19,012 --> 00:45:21,378 and then you'd be defeating your purpose. 828 00:45:22,315 --> 00:45:25,114 l'm here to do the job and my job right now is... 829 00:45:26,152 --> 00:45:28,347 -to get you out of here. -l understand that. 830 00:45:28,456 --> 00:45:31,947 l know a lot of people who are in prison who probably shouldn't be there. 831 00:45:32,059 --> 00:45:34,050 But that's our judicial system. 832 00:45:34,695 --> 00:45:35,956 You know what l mean? 833 00:45:36,097 --> 00:45:39,463 Sometimes it works and sometimes it don't. 834 00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:45,338 Believe me, l've seen it not work in the favor of my people many times. 835 00:45:45,806 --> 00:45:48,434 l'm gonna parlay the rest of this... 836 00:45:48,708 --> 00:45:53,646 my tedious job is to run you for wants and warrants and all that kind of stuff... 837 00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:57,079 if you would expedite your leaving. 838 00:45:57,184 --> 00:46:00,085 We'll get out of here, we'll head for the border right away 839 00:46:00,221 --> 00:46:01,188 19 radio. 840 00:46:04,992 --> 00:46:07,516 The gentleman has been given a standard warning. 841 00:46:08,460 --> 00:46:10,224 l'll give you his name and stuf. 842 00:46:13,134 --> 00:46:16,297 Before we left, we decided to check the mood of the street. 843 00:46:17,905 --> 00:46:20,202 He told me not to mess with her. 844 00:46:20,739 --> 00:46:23,471 She did everybody she could in the weeds... 845 00:46:23,943 --> 00:46:25,911 and then she moved to the projects. 846 00:46:26,347 --> 00:46:27,871 lt's not Kevin's fault. 847 00:46:27,981 --> 00:46:30,576 Free Kevin. Kevin has nothing to do with it. 848 00:46:30,684 --> 00:46:34,780 The broad quit me 'cause l was an alcoholic... 849 00:46:34,889 --> 00:46:36,550 and l wasn't making no money. 850 00:46:38,224 --> 00:46:40,385 l was broke, that's why she quit me. 851 00:46:40,494 --> 00:46:44,088 The reason l don't have a girlfriend is l don't have no money. 852 00:46:47,067 --> 00:46:48,226 Oh, wow. 853 00:46:48,369 --> 00:46:51,702 He seems like a nice guy. Why would you want to do anything to him? 854 00:46:53,139 --> 00:46:55,902 You think his girlfriend's gonna quit him or something? 855 00:46:56,010 --> 00:46:57,068 lt was time to go. 856 00:47:02,949 --> 00:47:04,974 We was peeling potatoes 857 00:47:05,619 --> 00:47:07,143 Back in World War Two 858 00:47:08,255 --> 00:47:12,623 And we was playing that rock and roll After school for you know who 859 00:47:15,429 --> 00:47:17,260 Hidden from the public 860 00:47:17,898 --> 00:47:19,695 lt was behind the scenes 861 00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:25,260 There was a relic They called the purple hair 862 00:47:47,061 --> 00:47:48,527 With Kevin Mitnick locked away... 863 00:47:48,628 --> 00:47:51,530 the phone companies of the world felt safe from intruders. 864 00:47:51,632 --> 00:47:54,692 But the fact remained, many people were exploring all the time... 865 00:47:54,802 --> 00:47:55,996 online and off. 866 00:47:56,103 --> 00:47:57,967 Allied SignalAerospace... 867 00:47:58,806 --> 00:48:00,398 Sprint PCS up there... 868 00:48:00,507 --> 00:48:03,202 lnformix, Southwestern Bell Mobile Systems.... 869 00:48:03,309 --> 00:48:04,436 You're scaring me. 870 00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:11,012 lt's like this flat area where there's no trees or anything, just industry 871 00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:15,889 Oklahoma, the state that created Hanson. 872 00:48:16,922 --> 00:48:20,518 People kept telling us our sound guy looked like one of the Hanson brothers. 873 00:48:20,628 --> 00:48:22,925 Since we were going through their hometown, Tulsa... 874 00:48:23,030 --> 00:48:25,521 we figured we'd go to one of Tulsa's bustling malls... 875 00:48:25,632 --> 00:48:28,362 and turn the Free Kevin campaign into a Hanson campaign. 876 00:48:28,635 --> 00:48:30,159 We could use the publicity.. 877 00:48:30,271 --> 00:48:32,967 and if we could confuse some Tulsans in the process... 878 00:48:33,072 --> 00:48:34,300 all the better. 879 00:48:34,407 --> 00:48:36,431 And it sure wasn't hard to do that. 880 00:48:49,789 --> 00:48:53,726 Once we'd confused people at the mall, we headed over to Oral Roberts University... 881 00:48:53,827 --> 00:48:56,659 in the hopes that the Religious Right would climb on board. 882 00:49:01,367 --> 00:49:04,530 When the vice president of the university, a former federal agent... 883 00:49:04,637 --> 00:49:07,697 came down the stairs with a golf club, we took the hint. 884 00:49:08,509 --> 00:49:10,409 There wasn't a golf course for miles. 885 00:49:10,878 --> 00:49:14,244 Hellflower, Satan's power 886 00:49:14,481 --> 00:49:17,916 You grow more beautiful by the hour 887 00:49:18,152 --> 00:49:21,315 You feed our hearts And you free our minds 888 00:49:21,454 --> 00:49:25,050 With the essence of the souls that you devour 889 00:49:33,333 --> 00:49:35,893 Shrinking violet makes the scene 890 00:49:36,202 --> 00:49:39,661 ln the formal garden of the queen 891 00:49:40,806 --> 00:49:43,367 Bloody Mary, so contrary 892 00:49:43,911 --> 00:49:46,072 They had a hard time getting into my place. 893 00:49:46,447 --> 00:49:50,041 l had the bedroom door closed, so l didn't hear the pounding on the door 894 00:49:50,483 --> 00:49:53,510 They were pounding on the door out there for a good 10 minutes. 895 00:49:53,619 --> 00:49:56,054 They actually started calling on the cellular phone... 896 00:49:56,155 --> 00:49:58,454 and leaving messages on my answering machine. 897 00:49:58,559 --> 00:50:01,152 ''This is the FBl. We're at your door. Open up.'' 898 00:50:01,561 --> 00:50:05,157 l wasn't there when they searched my home. My mom had to get me from school. 899 00:50:05,264 --> 00:50:07,494 My dad was the only one home. They thought... 900 00:50:08,402 --> 00:50:09,460 that he was me. 901 00:50:09,570 --> 00:50:12,003 They were looking for somebody that was an adult. 902 00:50:12,905 --> 00:50:15,500 When they found out that l was like, 13... 903 00:50:17,811 --> 00:50:19,277 they didn't know what to do. 904 00:50:19,380 --> 00:50:21,940 l think when they walk in and want to take things... 905 00:50:22,047 --> 00:50:23,539 they should be told to go to hell... 906 00:50:23,650 --> 00:50:27,016 take what they want, we'll see you in court, don't even talk to me. 907 00:50:28,288 --> 00:50:32,121 The problem, of course, is that hackers don't have the resources to do this. 908 00:50:32,659 --> 00:50:34,626 They want to try to get off cheap... 909 00:50:34,728 --> 00:50:37,288 so they cooperate and they plea bargain... 910 00:50:37,463 --> 00:50:40,431 and they end up pleading guilty to something they didn't do. 911 00:50:40,534 --> 00:50:43,559 And that sets the record bad for them going forward. 912 00:50:44,605 --> 00:50:48,132 l think if people had the resources, or if there were an organization... 913 00:50:48,242 --> 00:50:51,905 dedicated to helping people, to providing the resources.... 914 00:50:52,112 --> 00:50:56,139 You know, something that's much more than just a dummy front... 915 00:50:56,250 --> 00:50:57,409 such as the EFF. 916 00:50:57,818 --> 00:51:02,481 An organization that's actually truly willing to help in those matters... 917 00:51:02,889 --> 00:51:05,358 that we'd see a lot more progress along those lines. 918 00:51:06,025 --> 00:51:07,516 The government, for once... 919 00:51:07,628 --> 00:51:10,188 would have to start conforming to the same laws... 920 00:51:10,297 --> 00:51:12,356 that they're supposedly enforcing. 921 00:51:12,666 --> 00:51:15,032 We were detained for two hours in the parking lot. 922 00:51:15,135 --> 00:51:18,297 There were 13 police officers and l think five or six police cars. 923 00:51:20,139 --> 00:51:21,902 l told them what was going on... 924 00:51:22,009 --> 00:51:25,068 but they seemed to think there was more going on than there was. 925 00:51:26,746 --> 00:51:29,181 Without my consent they took my box of crystals... 926 00:51:29,282 --> 00:51:31,911 even though they admitted they didn't know what they were. 927 00:51:32,018 --> 00:51:35,681 They took anything and everything that had magnetic media on it... 928 00:51:35,789 --> 00:51:37,552 or had an electrical plug on it. 929 00:51:37,791 --> 00:51:40,487 They took other unrelated items such as a woman's purse. 930 00:51:41,228 --> 00:51:44,686 l'm not quite sure howthat fits into the scope of their investigation. 931 00:51:44,797 --> 00:51:46,594 Every business card l had. 932 00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:49,934 They took everything just to make life difficult on me. 933 00:51:50,237 --> 00:51:52,704 They told me they're not trying to chastise me... 934 00:51:54,407 --> 00:51:56,000 and then one of them said... 935 00:51:56,809 --> 00:51:59,608 he used to play with baseball cards when he was a kid. 936 00:52:00,079 --> 00:52:01,706 They would be searching my wardrobe. 937 00:52:01,815 --> 00:52:04,545 l'd be standing there with the guy he's asking questions... 938 00:52:04,650 --> 00:52:06,914 and he's going through every pocket in my wardrobe. 939 00:52:07,018 --> 00:52:08,681 Then it suddenly dawned on me... 940 00:52:08,789 --> 00:52:11,349 l don't have to stand there. So l walked out of the room. 941 00:52:11,458 --> 00:52:14,518 He stopped searching the wardrobe and walked out with me. 942 00:52:14,628 --> 00:52:15,958 lt was very obvious. 943 00:52:16,063 --> 00:52:19,226 Their tactics weren't meant to actually accomplish something. 944 00:52:19,333 --> 00:52:22,927 Searching every pocket of every shirt in my closet... 945 00:52:23,536 --> 00:52:26,597 that tactic wasn't meant to do anything except intimidate me. 946 00:52:27,106 --> 00:52:29,097 They showed up at my friend's house... 947 00:52:29,775 --> 00:52:32,744 where a 3-year-old and a 5-year-old had just been put to bed. 948 00:52:32,846 --> 00:52:35,313 They came storming into the house with guns drawn... 949 00:52:35,414 --> 00:52:37,210 ran up the steps... 950 00:52:37,918 --> 00:52:40,978 and said, ''Freeze! Secret Service! Don't move!'' 951 00:52:41,188 --> 00:52:44,987 l was sitting at the keyboard of a computer, so l looked extremely dangerous. 952 00:52:45,925 --> 00:52:49,384 l was thrown to the floor, handcuffed, and hogtied, and all that... 953 00:52:49,596 --> 00:52:51,152 and dragged out. l told my.. 954 00:52:51,797 --> 00:52:56,030 friend Ellen Fisher, who was there, to call my lawyer, which she did. 955 00:52:56,436 --> 00:52:58,199 They kept telling me to shut up. 956 00:53:00,541 --> 00:53:03,976 l was taken back to the police station in Havertown, Pennsylvania... 957 00:53:04,677 --> 00:53:08,704 and locked in a cell for about three hours while my car was searched. 958 00:53:11,018 --> 00:53:14,248 Then a Secret Service agent interviewed me... 959 00:53:14,420 --> 00:53:17,822 or interrogated me, wanted to know what l was doing with the crystals. 960 00:53:17,925 --> 00:53:20,324 And l said l was making them available to people. 961 00:53:23,130 --> 00:53:26,724 He tried to get me to say l was committing fraud with them which l was not. 962 00:53:27,434 --> 00:53:30,527 He gotvery irate that l wasn't telling him what he wanted to hear. 963 00:53:30,637 --> 00:53:33,003 Eventually they locked me back in the cell again. 964 00:53:33,106 --> 00:53:35,233 They refused to let me call my lawyer. 965 00:53:35,943 --> 00:53:37,570 ln fact, my rights weren't read to me. 966 00:53:37,677 --> 00:53:39,838 There were many instances in which l told them... 967 00:53:39,947 --> 00:53:41,608 l wanted to consult with my attorney... 968 00:53:41,715 --> 00:53:45,445 and they said, ''That's not a good idea.'' They wouldn't let me get an attorney 969 00:53:46,018 --> 00:53:47,452 So finally, when... 970 00:53:47,788 --> 00:53:52,724 they all shifted from my apartment to searching my office, actually at work... 971 00:53:53,327 --> 00:53:55,351 l got to drive down in my own car. 972 00:53:56,096 --> 00:53:57,393 l called an attorney... 973 00:53:57,496 --> 00:54:00,523 and by the time they were at my work, so was an attorney. 974 00:54:01,501 --> 00:54:04,527 The agent in charge, Ken McGuire, in particular... 975 00:54:04,637 --> 00:54:06,833 gave me a very nasty and disappointed look... 976 00:54:06,940 --> 00:54:09,635 at the fact that l was willing to protect my rights. 977 00:54:09,943 --> 00:54:11,306 lt's really amazing. 978 00:54:11,445 --> 00:54:13,208 He really gave me one of these: 979 00:54:15,081 --> 00:54:18,677 ''You shouldn't have done that'' looks. ''Now you're really in for it.'' 980 00:54:18,784 --> 00:54:20,753 NASA people told my parents l was cocky... 981 00:54:20,853 --> 00:54:22,981 because l told them to choose harder passwords. 982 00:54:23,090 --> 00:54:26,581 l had cops tell me pretty well straight out: 983 00:54:26,693 --> 00:54:29,753 ''We really didn't want to harm Junior.. 984 00:54:29,862 --> 00:54:32,126 ''so we took his computer and gave it to the boys... 985 00:54:32,231 --> 00:54:35,166 ''over in traffic management, and it was just really groovy.'' 986 00:54:35,568 --> 00:54:39,300 Wait a minute. You're like, ''You took this kid's equipment?'' 987 00:54:39,405 --> 00:54:42,306 They were like, ''lt was his dad's, but he was using it. 988 00:54:43,610 --> 00:54:45,237 ''Dad should have known better.'' 989 00:54:45,777 --> 00:54:50,512 So this is $4,000 worth of equipment full of heaven only knows what content... 990 00:54:50,617 --> 00:54:53,710 and you just pocketed it, basically? 991 00:54:53,820 --> 00:54:56,755 Now you're going to charge him? They said, ''lf we charge him... 992 00:54:56,856 --> 00:55:00,554 ''we've got to bring him up under 14 different interstate laws... 993 00:55:00,661 --> 00:55:02,492 ''he's gonna be a felon and be ruined.'' 994 00:55:02,596 --> 00:55:07,226 ''We explained this to them and they said, 'Take the machine, please.''' 995 00:55:07,567 --> 00:55:09,193 But that's not legal. 996 00:55:09,369 --> 00:55:12,202 That's nothing like legality 997 00:55:13,005 --> 00:55:14,496 lt's blackmail, basically. 998 00:55:15,074 --> 00:55:19,170 lt's like with anyone else. Simply because you have a badge... 999 00:55:20,547 --> 00:55:22,481 doesn't give you the right to be an asshole. 1000 00:55:22,581 --> 00:55:24,777 Unless you'd like me to be an asshole back to you. 1001 00:55:24,885 --> 00:55:26,443 l don't care who you are. 1002 00:55:27,085 --> 00:55:30,818 You will obtain the respect from me that you earn. Period. 1003 00:55:31,291 --> 00:55:33,782 l may have hacked NASA, but who doesn't? 1004 00:55:44,570 --> 00:55:47,438 They say they clocked us at just under 100 miles per hour... 1005 00:55:47,541 --> 00:55:49,268 on the lnterstate in New Mexico. 1006 00:55:49,509 --> 00:55:53,411 And the cop wouldn't let us go until l gave him my Social Security number. 1007 00:55:53,512 --> 00:55:57,277 To make matters worse, he told us we were still 11 hours away from Vegas. 1008 00:55:58,085 --> 00:55:59,710 Things seemed pretty bleak. 1009 00:56:00,554 --> 00:56:02,612 But, then, a miracle happened. 1010 00:56:06,025 --> 00:56:07,152 All right! 1011 00:56:09,061 --> 00:56:11,655 He said 11 hours and we made it in two and a half. 1012 00:56:11,764 --> 00:56:14,858 These highway patrol people don't know what they're talking about. 1013 00:56:14,967 --> 00:56:16,731 All right, Las Vegas, let's do it! 1014 00:56:19,206 --> 00:56:24,541 Twilight City gonna set my soul lt's gonna set my soul on fire 1015 00:56:25,112 --> 00:56:28,206 Got a whole lot of money that's ready to burn 1016 00:56:28,347 --> 00:56:30,907 So get those stakes up high 1017 00:56:31,217 --> 00:56:34,449 There's a thousand pretty women waiting out there 1018 00:56:34,788 --> 00:56:37,847 They're all waiting, they're devil-may-care 1019 00:56:37,958 --> 00:56:41,052 And l'm just the devil with love to spare, so 1020 00:56:41,327 --> 00:56:43,592 Viva Las Vegas 1021 00:56:44,431 --> 00:56:46,762 Viva Las Vegas 1022 00:56:47,601 --> 00:56:49,831 Viva Las Vegas 1023 00:56:52,105 --> 00:56:57,440 How l wish that there were more Than the 24 hours in the day 1024 00:56:58,512 --> 00:57:02,208 Even if l ran out of speed, boy 1025 00:57:02,581 --> 00:57:04,675 We're looking for the Defcon conference. 1026 00:57:04,784 --> 00:57:06,684 We're supposed to be filming here. 1027 00:57:06,786 --> 00:57:08,014 Defcon conference? 1028 00:57:08,822 --> 00:57:10,949 lt's like computer hackers.... 1029 00:57:11,056 --> 00:57:12,251 Not that l know of. 1030 00:57:13,059 --> 00:57:17,291 Were they gonna start inside the computer and work their way out? 1031 00:57:17,931 --> 00:57:22,458 lt's about a thousand computer hackers coming here. 1032 00:57:22,869 --> 00:57:24,199 l've never heard of it. 1033 00:57:24,304 --> 00:57:26,465 They must've done a good job keeping this quiet. 1034 00:57:26,572 --> 00:57:28,039 They even got me going. 1035 00:57:28,141 --> 00:57:29,699 Plaza Hotel, Las Vegas? 1036 00:57:30,811 --> 00:57:32,141 New Mexico. 1037 00:57:35,882 --> 00:57:38,179 lt was a mistake anybody could have made... 1038 00:57:38,284 --> 00:57:40,480 except nobody else seems to have made it. 1039 00:57:40,585 --> 00:57:42,143 At least if we were in New Mexico... 1040 00:57:42,255 --> 00:57:46,123 we could stop by LosAlamos National Labs, home of well-guarded nuclear secrets... 1041 00:57:46,226 --> 00:57:49,820 and one of the many places Shimomura had mysterious connections to. 1042 00:57:49,929 --> 00:57:53,864 lf we could get the word to the people here, we just might turn some heads. 1043 00:58:10,851 --> 00:58:13,148 ln those few places where we actually did get in... 1044 00:58:13,253 --> 00:58:16,222 we always seemed to stay a bit too long looking at the things... 1045 00:58:16,322 --> 00:58:18,313 we weren't supposed to be looking at. 1046 00:58:20,494 --> 00:58:23,121 This guy was mean, and told us to get the hell out. 1047 00:58:23,762 --> 00:58:26,697 As we left, we noticed more of these weird guys in fatigues... 1048 00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:28,266 all around the building. 1049 00:58:30,503 --> 00:58:34,065 That's when we got lost on a dark road with no name in New Mexico... 1050 00:58:34,172 --> 00:58:36,608 with a bunch of military zealots surrounding us. 1051 00:58:37,110 --> 00:58:38,338 We got the message. 1052 00:58:58,398 --> 00:59:01,389 Twilight City gonna set my soul 1053 00:59:01,701 --> 00:59:04,192 lt's gonna set my soul on fire 1054 00:59:04,737 --> 00:59:07,639 Got a whole lotta money that's ready to burn 1055 00:59:07,940 --> 00:59:10,465 So get those stakes up high 1056 00:59:10,911 --> 00:59:14,244 There's a thousand pretty women waiting out there 1057 00:59:14,447 --> 00:59:17,347 They're all waiting, they're devil-may-care 1058 00:59:17,650 --> 00:59:20,552 And l'm just the devil with love to spare, so 1059 00:59:20,954 --> 00:59:23,047 Viva Las Vegas 1060 00:59:24,157 --> 00:59:26,215 Viva Las Vegas 1061 00:59:27,260 --> 00:59:29,454 Viva Las Vegas 1062 00:59:31,565 --> 00:59:37,094 How l wish that there were more Than the 24 hours in the day 1063 00:59:38,170 --> 00:59:42,197 Even if l ran out of speed, boy 1064 00:59:42,375 --> 00:59:45,036 When l started, l never intended it to last this long. 1065 00:59:45,143 --> 00:59:48,376 l thought it was going to be a party and that's it.A one-time deal. 1066 00:59:48,547 --> 00:59:51,483 When we left, everybody said, ''Are you going to do it again?'' 1067 00:59:51,585 --> 00:59:54,518 And l said, ''l guess l could do this again.'' 1068 00:59:54,621 --> 00:59:58,215 Since then, more people get involved, more people say: 1069 00:59:58,324 --> 01:00:00,793 ''We could probably have some music.'' 1070 01:00:00,893 --> 01:00:03,829 Next thing you know, we've got a live laser light system... 1071 01:00:03,929 --> 01:00:08,059 with LCD wall projectors and DJs coming in from the United Kingdom to spin. 1072 01:00:16,876 --> 01:00:19,139 lt has taken on this life of its own. 1073 01:00:36,663 --> 01:00:38,152 We are the Ghetto Hackers. 1074 01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:44,565 Low-class, low-budget, high-octane. 1075 01:00:51,577 --> 01:00:53,010 -Dead! -Cow! 1076 01:00:54,347 --> 01:00:56,577 When l say rock, you say ass! 1077 01:00:56,681 --> 01:00:58,981 -Rock! -Ass! 1078 01:00:59,085 --> 01:01:00,813 Thank you very much. Good night. 1079 01:01:02,922 --> 01:01:05,755 l have in my hand proof positive... 1080 01:01:05,858 --> 01:01:09,157 that NTis not the solution to your computing problems. 1081 01:01:09,262 --> 01:01:12,822 l have captured earlier today on film... 1082 01:01:12,931 --> 01:01:14,262 the blue screen of death... 1083 01:01:14,367 --> 01:01:17,768 at Las Vegas' own MGM Grand Hotel and Casino! 1084 01:01:20,005 --> 01:01:21,371 Thousands showed up. 1085 01:01:21,541 --> 01:01:24,202 Even though the Free Kevin stickers turned into toys... 1086 01:01:24,309 --> 01:01:26,277 at least everybody here knew his name. 1087 01:01:29,516 --> 01:01:33,646 You have to go to www.kevinmitnick.com. Look it up for yourself. 1088 01:01:36,588 --> 01:01:38,523 ''And it doesn't matter what he says about us.'' 1089 01:01:40,326 --> 01:01:42,021 ''What matters is us. 1090 01:01:42,128 --> 01:01:43,686 ''What matters is....'' 1091 01:01:48,967 --> 01:01:49,802 We were hot on the trail. 1092 01:01:49,802 --> 01:01:51,304 We were hot on the trail. 1093 01:01:51,304 --> 01:01:53,204 l don't want to get into Shimomura. 1094 01:01:54,206 --> 01:01:56,641 l think he has a very large ego. 1095 01:01:56,742 --> 01:01:59,405 He's a very bright person and very smart... 1096 01:01:59,746 --> 01:02:03,204 but l think his social skills are lacking. 1097 01:02:03,550 --> 01:02:05,643 For years, Shimomura had been eluding me. 1098 01:02:06,286 --> 01:02:08,719 l couldn't even get on the same TV shows. 1099 01:02:09,054 --> 01:02:10,920 He'd pop up over on CNN... 1100 01:02:11,458 --> 01:02:13,789 while l was stuck over on a broadcast network. 1101 01:02:15,561 --> 01:02:18,030 While he was getting all cozy with Tom Brokaw... 1102 01:02:18,764 --> 01:02:21,199 l was being interrogated by Mike Wallace. 1103 01:02:23,103 --> 01:02:24,764 2600: The Hacker Quarterly? 1104 01:02:25,338 --> 01:02:27,431 Tsutomu wasn't even answering my e-mail. 1105 01:02:28,074 --> 01:02:30,440 But nowthere would be no escape. 1106 01:02:31,077 --> 01:02:34,342 The San Diego Supercomputer Center, the place where he worked. 1107 01:02:34,914 --> 01:02:36,574 We were closing in. 1108 01:02:36,815 --> 01:02:38,784 You notice how quiet it is? 1109 01:02:40,619 --> 01:02:43,315 Like when a deer is about to be killed by a lion? 1110 01:02:46,992 --> 01:02:48,858 -You're here to see him? -Yes. 1111 01:02:50,063 --> 01:02:51,791 -You're looking for Tsutomu? -Yes. 1112 01:02:51,898 --> 01:02:54,128 -l haven't seen him in three months. -Really? 1113 01:02:54,900 --> 01:02:56,697 Do you know where he is? 1114 01:02:57,268 --> 01:02:58,737 He's not here. 1115 01:02:58,938 --> 01:03:00,132 Let me check with.... 1116 01:03:00,239 --> 01:03:02,434 Did you make arrangements to meet him here? 1117 01:03:02,541 --> 01:03:05,476 They weren'tvery firm but he knew we were coming. 1118 01:03:07,679 --> 01:03:10,672 -You can try his office. -Did you have an appointment with him? 1119 01:03:10,784 --> 01:03:12,978 -lt was very informal. -l'm sorry. 1120 01:03:13,318 --> 01:03:15,753 You can try the extension, but l haven't seen him. 1121 01:03:15,855 --> 01:03:17,322 Do l know him? 1122 01:03:18,291 --> 01:03:20,384 Just from interacting on.... 1123 01:03:20,492 --> 01:03:23,155 But l'm not.... l can't.... 1124 01:03:23,262 --> 01:03:26,164 Definitely should have called first, l guess. 1125 01:03:26,465 --> 01:03:28,626 lt's just he likes surprises so much. 1126 01:03:28,934 --> 01:03:31,768 This sheet of paper that we wanted him to have. 1127 01:03:32,838 --> 01:03:36,467 He'll know what it's about. He wanted a couple of these stickers as well. 1128 01:03:36,708 --> 01:03:38,141 He wanted these? 1129 01:03:38,277 --> 01:03:42,476 l just wanted to make sure he got them. Great. Thanks so much for your help. 1130 01:03:42,581 --> 01:03:45,449 lt wasn't much better than the reception we got at Miramax. 1131 01:03:45,552 --> 01:03:48,679 But we left our calling card in a place where we knew he'd see it. 1132 01:03:51,356 --> 01:03:55,487 l think it's absurd when l find out that Shimomura, in addition... 1133 01:03:55,594 --> 01:03:58,563 is giving instructions to Skeet Ulrich... 1134 01:03:59,164 --> 01:04:01,257 on howto act more like Kevin. 1135 01:04:01,867 --> 01:04:05,166 Here's someone instructing him howto act more like Kevin... 1136 01:04:05,271 --> 01:04:08,172 and it's a person that met Kevin only once... 1137 01:04:08,474 --> 01:04:12,068 in court, under circumstances of duress. 1138 01:04:12,846 --> 01:04:16,213 From there how he can ascertain how Kevin acts, l don't know. 1139 01:04:17,951 --> 01:04:21,215 When l step on this curb we're officially on his property. 1140 01:04:30,630 --> 01:04:33,565 Sorry to bother you. We're looking for somebody next door. 1141 01:04:33,666 --> 01:04:35,929 We're not sure if we have the right neighborhood. 1142 01:04:36,034 --> 01:04:39,492 -Tsutomu Shimomura. -He moved. He's long gone. 1143 01:04:39,606 --> 01:04:41,369 How long ago did he move? 1144 01:04:41,541 --> 01:04:43,099 -Seven, eight months? -Really? 1145 01:04:43,208 --> 01:04:44,835 Do you have any idea where he went? 1146 01:04:44,943 --> 01:04:47,708 No, he was renting, and the people who own it moved back in. 1147 01:04:47,813 --> 01:04:50,304 He's in the national news. Are you aware of that? 1148 01:04:50,416 --> 01:04:52,940 -He's what? -There's a movie that they're making. 1149 01:04:53,418 --> 01:04:55,943 -You can see, l'm on the phone. -l'm sorry. 1150 01:04:56,155 --> 01:04:59,021 -They're making a movie about him. -They're making a movie? 1151 01:04:59,659 --> 01:05:01,956 -lt's all about-- -l read his book. 1152 01:05:03,862 --> 01:05:06,592 They're making a big Hollywood blockbuster about it. 1153 01:05:06,699 --> 01:05:09,929 They may film around here because this is one of the places he lived. 1154 01:05:10,036 --> 01:05:12,266 -So l could be a star? -You could be a star. 1155 01:05:12,538 --> 01:05:15,530 l've been waiting to be discovered for a long time. 1156 01:05:15,641 --> 01:05:17,405 He could be anywhere. 1157 01:05:19,945 --> 01:05:21,208 Man, that's scary. 1158 01:05:21,313 --> 01:05:24,373 We had one last address to try inside a gated community. 1159 01:05:24,550 --> 01:05:26,643 But this was getting frustrating. 1160 01:05:27,286 --> 01:05:28,947 We have another lead here. 1161 01:05:30,123 --> 01:05:33,853 We're certainly seeing a lot of the nicer places of this neighborhood. 1162 01:05:36,596 --> 01:05:39,030 ''Out of order, please use other door.'' 1163 01:05:43,902 --> 01:05:47,838 You know, if that was a computer, we'd be facing 50 years in jail. 1164 01:05:53,478 --> 01:05:56,106 They think we're the Publisher's Clearinghouse. 1165 01:05:58,684 --> 01:06:01,277 lt was like he was a step ahead of us. 1166 01:06:02,688 --> 01:06:04,384 Japanese? Long hair? 1167 01:06:06,458 --> 01:06:08,652 For some reason, people think it's a good idea... 1168 01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:11,855 to have a full directory of every tenant in an apartment complex... 1169 01:06:11,965 --> 01:06:14,023 available to anyone in the world. 1170 01:06:14,900 --> 01:06:17,597 But it gave us the definitive proof we needed: 1171 01:06:17,737 --> 01:06:19,398 Shimomura wasn't here either. 1172 01:06:21,340 --> 01:06:23,605 lt's a pretty cool system, though. 1173 01:06:26,612 --> 01:06:28,204 Let's try a couple of other things. 1174 01:06:28,313 --> 01:06:32,306 We're going to enter the room number this time. 1175 01:06:36,121 --> 01:06:37,179 Now it's dialing. 1176 01:06:38,556 --> 01:06:41,425 That's their whole phone number being broadcast! 1177 01:06:44,130 --> 01:06:46,097 See if we get an answering machine. 1178 01:06:47,500 --> 01:06:50,525 You've reached Amy. l'm sorry l'm unavailable to take your call. 1179 01:06:50,635 --> 01:06:53,126 Please leave a message. l'll get back to you as soon.... 1180 01:06:53,239 --> 01:06:55,503 We've gotten everything we can out of this place... 1181 01:06:55,608 --> 01:06:59,668 and made ourselves look suspicious at the same time so we'd better get out of here. 1182 01:07:00,847 --> 01:07:01,514 On the way out of San Diego, our rental car broke. 1183 01:07:01,514 --> 01:07:03,681 On the way out of San Diego, our rental car broke. 1184 01:07:03,681 --> 01:07:05,081 The trunk wouldn't close. 1185 01:07:05,184 --> 01:07:07,744 We should get this tape of the trunk, too. 1186 01:07:09,222 --> 01:07:11,849 Holy fuck! Oh, my God! Shit! 1187 01:07:15,527 --> 01:07:17,257 We're right underneath the flight path! 1188 01:07:17,463 --> 01:07:20,023 We had to clean everything out so we could exchange it... 1189 01:07:20,132 --> 01:07:23,728 including the disgusting piece of gum that somehow got stuck to the door. 1190 01:07:24,003 --> 01:07:26,938 You know what, l'll use their own key to scrape it off. 1191 01:07:27,039 --> 01:07:28,597 Okay, l'm down. 1192 01:07:28,974 --> 01:07:32,034 This is the most disgusting thing l've ever had to do in my life. 1193 01:07:32,143 --> 01:07:33,907 You know it's still soft. Oh, God! 1194 01:07:34,646 --> 01:07:35,670 Want some gum? 1195 01:07:42,789 --> 01:07:44,619 This is a scary neighborhood. 1196 01:07:45,291 --> 01:07:47,851 We made it to LosAngeles in a brand-new rental car. 1197 01:07:47,960 --> 01:07:50,427 Our first stop, the University of Southern California... 1198 01:07:50,530 --> 01:07:54,295 where Kevin had been accused of storing software from cellular phone companies. 1199 01:07:54,400 --> 01:07:58,097 USC claimed that somehow caused over $1,000 in damage. 1200 01:07:58,335 --> 01:08:00,702 l wanted to know what computer system gets damaged... 1201 01:08:00,806 --> 01:08:02,739 by having files stored on it! 1202 01:08:03,242 --> 01:08:06,507 l'm Brian Johnson. l'm theAssociate Director of Customer Support. 1203 01:08:06,612 --> 01:08:09,978 Yeah, we're not allowed to comment on any of the security. 1204 01:08:10,083 --> 01:08:12,210 At least we finally managed to find someone... 1205 01:08:12,318 --> 01:08:14,512 who'd say they weren't allowed to say anything. 1206 01:08:14,619 --> 01:08:16,587 That was progress, right? 1207 01:08:17,957 --> 01:08:18,556 The Metropolitan Detention Center in Los Angeles... 1208 01:08:18,556 --> 01:08:20,560 The Metropolitan Detention Center in Los Angeles... 1209 01:08:20,560 --> 01:08:22,926 where Kevin had been held for three-and-a-half years. 1210 01:08:23,029 --> 01:08:25,497 lt was his 35th birthday and we wanted to say hi. 1211 01:08:25,596 --> 01:08:28,725 The closest we could come was the Mobil station across the street. 1212 01:08:28,835 --> 01:08:32,395 lt was a popular place for all the people who couldn'tvisit their friends. 1213 01:08:32,505 --> 01:08:35,064 l know he's looking at me, so l can wave hi. 1214 01:08:35,675 --> 01:08:39,337 And he gives me a call and he says, ''lt's cool, you went to see me.'' 1215 01:08:39,511 --> 01:08:42,502 -He's comfortable with that. -How often do you come by? 1216 01:08:43,180 --> 01:08:44,911 Like, almost once a week. 1217 01:08:45,015 --> 01:08:48,180 When l drop off my sister that goes to see him. 1218 01:08:48,287 --> 01:08:51,085 -How come you can't go in there and visit? -lt's too strict. 1219 01:08:51,189 --> 01:08:54,158 l wouldn't know why the reason they don't let us go in. 1220 01:08:54,260 --> 01:08:56,194 -You're his brother? -He's my brother-in-law. 1221 01:08:56,295 --> 01:08:57,523 Married to my sister. 1222 01:08:57,630 --> 01:09:01,225 -So it's only immediate family? -Yeah, immediate family. So l can't see him. 1223 01:09:01,332 --> 01:09:03,698 He talks to me through the phone and letters. 1224 01:09:04,136 --> 01:09:06,296 -l just come and say hi. -What's he in for? 1225 01:09:07,640 --> 01:09:11,576 l don't know what the reason why he's in, but he's just in. 1226 01:09:13,645 --> 01:09:17,104 And you bring your friends with you? Are they part of the family, too? 1227 01:09:17,216 --> 01:09:19,207 Yeah, they know my brother-in-law 1228 01:09:19,685 --> 01:09:21,618 We grew up together so.... 1229 01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:26,122 Have you heard of Kevin Mitnick, the person we're here for? 1230 01:09:26,225 --> 01:09:28,591 -l never heard of him. -He's a computer hacker. 1231 01:09:28,694 --> 01:09:30,854 -You know what computer hackers are? -Yeah. 1232 01:09:30,962 --> 01:09:33,488 He's been in there for three-and-a-half years... 1233 01:09:34,399 --> 01:09:38,359 -and he hasn't had a trial yet. -He should get a trial, you know? 1234 01:09:38,470 --> 01:09:42,667 He's working on it, he's trying, but the wheels of justice move very slowly. 1235 01:09:42,774 --> 01:09:44,172 That's something true. 1236 01:09:45,411 --> 01:09:46,899 They're not the ones that-- 1237 01:09:49,282 --> 01:09:50,408 Sure. 1238 01:09:50,750 --> 01:09:53,649 There's so many people, l think. lt's overcrowded. 1239 01:09:54,386 --> 01:09:57,912 l wouldn't even know what to tell you, l've never been in that system. 1240 01:09:58,024 --> 01:10:00,720 He must've went in somebody's government-- 1241 01:10:00,826 --> 01:10:02,555 He must've pissed somebody off. 1242 01:10:02,993 --> 01:10:05,189 Pissed somebody off in the government pretty good. 1243 01:10:05,296 --> 01:10:08,426 They probably laughed and said, ''You have to stay there a while.'' 1244 01:10:08,533 --> 01:10:10,796 That's not fair but that's the way it is. 1245 01:10:10,903 --> 01:10:13,167 When the windows are only a couple of inches wide... 1246 01:10:13,270 --> 01:10:15,502 it's hard to find the person you're looking for... 1247 01:10:15,608 --> 01:10:17,939 even if you know exactly what time to look. 1248 01:10:18,042 --> 01:10:19,805 And then we heard it. 1249 01:10:26,685 --> 01:10:27,845 Yeah, what was that? 1250 01:10:27,953 --> 01:10:29,716 l heard a pounding on the window 1251 01:10:32,692 --> 01:10:34,353 1,2,3,4,5. 1252 01:10:40,966 --> 01:10:43,060 He's shining a light or something. 1253 01:10:49,207 --> 01:10:50,332 l can see him now. 1254 01:10:50,443 --> 01:10:52,739 Was that you?That was you. 1255 01:10:53,279 --> 01:10:57,078 You were pounding on the glass, right? We heard that across the street. 1256 01:10:57,181 --> 01:11:00,640 We were looking at the wrong window. Then we heard this pounding noise. 1257 01:11:00,752 --> 01:11:02,653 Come back to the window and wave some more. 1258 01:11:02,755 --> 01:11:04,118 Can you do that? 1259 01:11:04,657 --> 01:11:08,524 We'll put a sticker up, we just don't want the sticker to come back to haunt you. 1260 01:11:08,627 --> 01:11:09,925 He wants us to put a sticker. 1261 01:11:10,029 --> 01:11:12,122 -He wants a sticker? -A sticker would be cool. 1262 01:11:12,229 --> 01:11:13,662 We can see your hand. 1263 01:11:13,765 --> 01:11:16,496 l doubt you can stick your whole head through the window 1264 01:11:16,801 --> 01:11:18,792 Splotch your face up against the window 1265 01:11:18,904 --> 01:11:21,667 Nowthat we know it's the right one, we can zoom in on it. 1266 01:11:21,774 --> 01:11:24,537 All right, cool. We'll see you in two minutes? 1267 01:11:25,711 --> 01:11:28,009 Okay, great. See you then. Bye. 1268 01:11:29,015 --> 01:11:32,073 He's going to be up there in two minutes. That was definitely him. 1269 01:11:32,184 --> 01:11:35,381 l wish we could go in there and see him without having to do this. 1270 01:11:35,488 --> 01:11:37,149 But, hell, l'll take it. 1271 01:11:38,224 --> 01:11:41,386 We found out that our filming the prison had caused such a stir.. 1272 01:11:41,493 --> 01:11:43,394 that every single prisoner was locked down... 1273 01:11:43,496 --> 01:11:45,962 confined to their cell for the rest of the day 1274 01:11:46,465 --> 01:11:49,729 And Kevin told us it was the best time he had had in years. 1275 01:11:51,671 --> 01:11:52,761 Like this. 1276 01:11:57,542 --> 01:11:58,908 That's cool. 1277 01:12:03,916 --> 01:12:06,747 Even the manager of the station said it was all right. 1278 01:12:15,127 --> 01:12:18,153 This guy in the blue car just gave me $6 for the defense fund. 1279 01:12:18,264 --> 01:12:21,288 No kidding.Thanks!That's great. That's amazing. 1280 01:12:21,399 --> 01:12:24,493 Look where l put the sticker. l got permission from the owner. 1281 01:12:24,603 --> 01:12:25,934 lt'll be gone tomorrow. 1282 01:12:26,037 --> 01:12:27,903 -That's great. -lt'll be there for a while. 1283 01:12:28,006 --> 01:12:29,667 -He let you do that? -Yeah, l asked him. 1284 01:12:29,774 --> 01:12:33,140 Randolph's gonna get gas and he's gonna fucking shit a brick. 1285 01:12:33,479 --> 01:12:34,912 He was never served... 1286 01:12:37,082 --> 01:12:39,345 with a warrant for his arrest... 1287 01:12:39,618 --> 01:12:44,055 for the supervised release violations during the period of his supervised release. 1288 01:12:44,221 --> 01:12:48,921 So by the time that he was done and went on his way... 1289 01:12:50,395 --> 01:12:54,162 there's no indication that he was aware that such a warrant existed. 1290 01:12:57,403 --> 01:12:59,894 Damn! You know, Sprint really sucks. 1291 01:13:00,506 --> 01:13:03,497 We wanted the entire city of Los Angeles to know about Kevin. 1292 01:13:04,777 --> 01:13:06,768 And what better way than to put the message... 1293 01:13:06,877 --> 01:13:09,368 on the most famous billboard in town? 1294 01:13:12,184 --> 01:13:14,377 lt took us hours to climb that thing. 1295 01:13:15,587 --> 01:13:19,046 We honestly didn't knowthere was a road that went straight up the back. 1296 01:13:19,158 --> 01:13:20,648 But we made it. 1297 01:13:21,394 --> 01:13:22,827 Funny thing, though. 1298 01:13:22,926 --> 01:13:25,761 We couldn't find anybody who saw our Free Kevin banner. 1299 01:13:27,666 --> 01:13:30,225 Later, we went to the most famous movie theater in town... 1300 01:13:30,336 --> 01:13:32,859 to try and spread the word from up close. 1301 01:13:38,743 --> 01:13:41,076 Here, Free Kevin! Free Kevin Mitnick. 1302 01:13:41,180 --> 01:13:43,148 lt won't bite you. Speak English? 1303 01:13:43,247 --> 01:13:45,877 We're trying to get the message across to Miramax... 1304 01:13:45,984 --> 01:13:49,318 that it's wrong to release a movie that's supposed to be factual... 1305 01:13:49,421 --> 01:13:50,684 that's based on real events.... 1306 01:13:50,788 --> 01:13:53,484 People will see this movie and think this is a true story... 1307 01:13:53,591 --> 01:13:56,060 when so much of it has been completely fabricated. 1308 01:13:56,162 --> 01:13:57,890 -l've heard about this guy. -Really? 1309 01:13:57,997 --> 01:14:00,488 Here, help stop a movie about a computer hacker? 1310 01:14:03,269 --> 01:14:05,134 -You got a problem? -l got a problem. 1311 01:14:05,237 --> 01:14:07,068 Come back and tell me about it. 1312 01:14:07,773 --> 01:14:09,569 Pussy! 1313 01:14:10,743 --> 01:14:12,801 lt's hard to believe someone in this country... 1314 01:14:12,912 --> 01:14:17,076 could be in jail for three-and-a-half years, held in a maximum-security facility... 1315 01:14:17,181 --> 01:14:18,810 no bail, no trial. 1316 01:14:19,149 --> 01:14:21,176 l don't find thatvery hard to believe. 1317 01:14:21,287 --> 01:14:23,845 -l read a book, Takedown. -Takedown, that's right. 1318 01:14:23,956 --> 01:14:25,685 l read like half of it. 1319 01:14:26,358 --> 01:14:29,953 He gets out of jail, he'll probably take over everything. 1320 01:14:30,662 --> 01:14:33,791 That's the problem. People think that, but it's not true. 1321 01:14:33,899 --> 01:14:36,800 You don't think he could hack anything if he just gets online? 1322 01:14:36,902 --> 01:14:38,993 He can't hack anything just by getting online. 1323 01:14:39,104 --> 01:14:41,265 l mean, you gotta have a program and whatever.... 1324 01:14:41,372 --> 01:14:43,000 Why are you recording this? 1325 01:14:43,108 --> 01:14:46,407 Hey, read about Kevin Mitnick? They're making a movie about this guy. 1326 01:14:48,546 --> 01:14:51,277 He's the best guy ever! l know him since l was, like day one. 1327 01:14:51,381 --> 01:14:52,939 Yeah, me too, yo! 1328 01:14:59,859 --> 01:15:02,987 He's never done anything wrong, he's never hurt anyone... 1329 01:15:03,095 --> 01:15:05,461 and he's being treated like that in this country. 1330 01:15:05,564 --> 01:15:08,032 That is theAmerican way. Wake up. 1331 01:15:09,533 --> 01:15:13,027 Kevin was denied bail. Even a bail hearing. 1332 01:15:14,671 --> 01:15:18,268 lf you recall, even Ted Kaczynski got a bail hearing. 1333 01:15:18,377 --> 01:15:21,868 His bail was turned down. You're entitled to a bail hearing. 1334 01:15:22,314 --> 01:15:24,407 On the other hand, Kevin... 1335 01:15:25,751 --> 01:15:28,877 is getting treatment that is outside the law 1336 01:15:29,654 --> 01:15:34,524 And that's what makes itvery difficult for him to mount a legal defense. 1337 01:15:34,960 --> 01:15:37,724 He's not being treated in a legal manner 1338 01:15:38,029 --> 01:15:41,395 l've never heard of anything even approaching this level of... 1339 01:15:43,569 --> 01:15:45,502 ...confinement prior to a trial. 1340 01:15:46,069 --> 01:15:47,698 Murderers get bail. 1341 01:15:49,375 --> 01:15:51,002 Armed robbers get bail. 1342 01:15:52,042 --> 01:15:54,408 The fear of what he's going to do... 1343 01:15:54,511 --> 01:15:58,038 from a push-button telephone in the general population of a cell... 1344 01:15:58,216 --> 01:16:02,676 shows again a lack of technical understanding on the part of the prison... 1345 01:16:02,787 --> 01:16:05,586 and judicial system.And l think that's sad. 1346 01:16:05,989 --> 01:16:08,355 And he is right nowthe victim of that. 1347 01:16:10,662 --> 01:16:11,529 On our way up the coast, we dropped in on Sun. 1348 01:16:11,529 --> 01:16:13,096 On our way up the coast, we dropped in on Sun. 1349 01:16:13,096 --> 01:16:15,032 According to a letter we got our hands on... 1350 01:16:15,134 --> 01:16:17,466 they said Kevin's acquisition of their source code... 1351 01:16:17,569 --> 01:16:20,332 represented hundreds of millions of dollars in damage. 1352 01:16:20,439 --> 01:16:22,564 Nowthey give the source code away for free. 1353 01:16:23,140 --> 01:16:24,471 Something wasn't right. 1354 01:16:24,609 --> 01:16:25,634 So we're right here. 1355 01:16:25,743 --> 01:16:28,474 On the other side of the freeway there's the other Sun. 1356 01:16:30,314 --> 01:16:32,578 And then further up is their big campus. 1357 01:16:32,685 --> 01:16:36,551 Basically, all of this blank area... 1358 01:16:36,654 --> 01:16:39,520 is actually Sun buildings and Sun streets. 1359 01:16:39,625 --> 01:16:42,524 We knew where we were, now we just needed someone to talk to. 1360 01:16:42,627 --> 01:16:44,890 What number do we call and who do we speak to? 1361 01:16:44,997 --> 01:16:46,792 1-800-USA4SUN. 1362 01:16:46,899 --> 01:16:48,957 They can direct you to whoever you need. 1363 01:16:49,068 --> 01:16:50,533 USA4SUN? 1364 01:16:50,703 --> 01:16:53,069 Can you remember or do you want me to write it down? 1365 01:16:53,171 --> 01:16:56,608 The receptionist wouldn't let us talk to anyone unless we called. 1366 01:16:56,707 --> 01:16:59,234 But we slipped a few leaflets onto their coffee table. 1367 01:16:59,345 --> 01:17:01,243 l thought she was being kind of patronizing. 1368 01:17:01,345 --> 01:17:04,180 ''Do you want me to write that down or can you remember it?'' 1369 01:17:04,350 --> 01:17:05,680 l can remember it. 1370 01:17:08,685 --> 01:17:10,243 USA4SUN, right? 1371 01:17:10,488 --> 01:17:13,582 -Was that it? Or was it SUN4USA? Fuck! -Yeah. 1372 01:17:13,692 --> 01:17:14,783 You sure? 1373 01:17:15,894 --> 01:17:17,759 Should l run in and ask her again? 1374 01:17:18,363 --> 01:17:20,127 ''Thank you for calling Sun.'' 1375 01:17:26,572 --> 01:17:29,368 l have a rotary phone. l'm not going to press any buttons. 1376 01:17:35,546 --> 01:17:36,877 l'm pressing zero. 1377 01:17:40,819 --> 01:17:42,944 l'm probably going to get her,too. 1378 01:17:44,622 --> 01:17:46,591 My call ''may be monitored.'' 1379 01:17:48,193 --> 01:17:49,956 Another machine. 1380 01:17:53,930 --> 01:17:56,194 They want my eight-digit lD number! 1381 01:17:57,603 --> 01:17:59,434 This is bullshit, man. 1382 01:18:00,372 --> 01:18:03,273 They've got me waiting for a customer service representative. 1383 01:18:03,375 --> 01:18:05,364 lt's not exactly what l had in mind. 1384 01:18:06,045 --> 01:18:08,104 But let's see what happens. 1385 01:18:09,413 --> 01:18:11,474 My call is ''very important to them.'' 1386 01:18:14,653 --> 01:18:15,984 He hung up! 1387 01:18:16,421 --> 01:18:17,719 He hung up on me! 1388 01:18:18,221 --> 01:18:21,350 Maybe he didn't hang up on me but he hung up all the same. 1389 01:18:21,460 --> 01:18:23,291 Fuck!All right. 1390 01:18:25,529 --> 01:18:28,863 l think on their web page there's a direct public relations number 1391 01:18:28,966 --> 01:18:31,800 But we're not on their web page, we're in their parking lot. 1392 01:18:33,203 --> 01:18:36,197 Wait a minute. You don't have your Ricochet modem? 1393 01:18:36,306 --> 01:18:37,969 -Not today. -You're not prepared! 1394 01:18:38,077 --> 01:18:40,270 Shit. We can't access the web from here... 1395 01:18:40,377 --> 01:18:42,506 we're outside Sun and we can't get on the net... 1396 01:18:42,613 --> 01:18:44,912 to find out what their phone number is! 1397 01:18:46,350 --> 01:18:48,341 l'm gonna try this number one more time. 1398 01:18:48,453 --> 01:18:52,412 l'm gonna be a little patient here. Assume maybe they made a little mistake. 1399 01:18:53,225 --> 01:18:56,488 Okay, now l am waiting for the corporate switchboard. 1400 01:18:59,096 --> 01:19:01,462 Hi, Pete, my name is Emmanuel. 1401 01:19:01,567 --> 01:19:04,127 l'm trying to reach somebody in Public Relations. 1402 01:19:04,234 --> 01:19:09,171 l'm hoping somebody can contact me concerning the Kevin Mitnick case... 1403 01:19:09,675 --> 01:19:12,109 and how it involved Sun. We're doing a documentary. 1404 01:19:12,211 --> 01:19:15,542 We came to the corporate headquarters hoping to get an appointment... 1405 01:19:15,645 --> 01:19:19,604 and they gave us a phone number and we're trying to do just that... 1406 01:19:19,716 --> 01:19:21,412 so if you could get back to me.... 1407 01:19:21,520 --> 01:19:23,010 They have a fortress here. 1408 01:19:23,122 --> 01:19:27,786 They have that mighty guard there at the front that won't let anybody by 1409 01:19:28,060 --> 01:19:30,551 And then the voice mail guard here... 1410 01:19:30,662 --> 01:19:33,323 that won't let anybody actually call and speak to a person. 1411 01:19:33,797 --> 01:19:36,095 Maybe they'll call back, maybe they won't. 1412 01:19:36,201 --> 01:19:39,033 This is the red hotline. lf that rings, we'll know 1413 01:19:40,706 --> 01:19:42,332 We have GPS, good. 1414 01:19:42,841 --> 01:19:44,934 GPS but no modem. Man, that sucks. 1415 01:19:46,612 --> 01:19:50,069 l was using it last night and it was gone in the morning which means.... 1416 01:19:50,180 --> 01:19:52,444 Sorry, no cameras in front of the building. 1417 01:19:52,551 --> 01:19:54,576 How about if we film in that direction? 1418 01:19:55,453 --> 01:19:57,216 We can't have the cameras filming. 1419 01:19:57,322 --> 01:19:59,288 Okay, 'cause we were just filming us. 1420 01:19:59,390 --> 01:20:02,359 No, l can understand that, but unfortunately... 1421 01:20:02,694 --> 01:20:04,184 Wow, this was a new one. 1422 01:20:04,296 --> 01:20:07,322 We couldn't even film ourselves in Sun's parking lot. 1423 01:20:07,497 --> 01:20:10,332 Corporate paranoia was at an all-time high. 1424 01:20:10,469 --> 01:20:13,493 And, needless to say, Pete never called us back. 1425 01:20:13,770 --> 01:20:14,604 Meanwhile, John Markoff had agreed to talk to us. 1426 01:20:14,604 --> 01:20:16,506 Meanwhile, John Markoff had agreed to talk to us. 1427 01:20:16,506 --> 01:20:18,635 Maybe now we'd finally get some answers. 1428 01:20:19,077 --> 01:20:21,545 We made it to San Francisco on the exact same day... 1429 01:20:21,645 --> 01:20:24,739 that psychologists from around the world gathered for a convention. 1430 01:20:24,850 --> 01:20:27,375 Maybe because so many people in that area were depressed. 1431 01:20:27,484 --> 01:20:29,420 They have counseling phones on the bridges... 1432 01:20:29,520 --> 01:20:31,546 because so many people are jumping off them. 1433 01:20:31,657 --> 01:20:33,350 But San Francisco was a friendly town... 1434 01:20:33,457 --> 01:20:36,484 where people felt safe leaving their trash unattended. 1435 01:20:36,828 --> 01:20:38,296 But more importantly... 1436 01:20:38,662 --> 01:20:43,158 the psychologists wound up taking almost every hotel room in the entire city... 1437 01:20:46,069 --> 01:20:48,162 even the old-fashioned ones. 1438 01:20:50,841 --> 01:20:53,310 We were beginning to get desperate. 1439 01:20:55,011 --> 01:20:58,676 Then we found a hotel that was almost completely deserted. 1440 01:20:58,783 --> 01:21:00,216 We never did find out why. 1441 01:21:02,688 --> 01:21:05,417 Markoff mentions certain stories. 1442 01:21:05,524 --> 01:21:09,426 He'll say, ''lt's been said that....'' or ''Other people have said that....'' 1443 01:21:09,528 --> 01:21:14,328 And he'll come up with these stories like he shut down judges'TRW ratings... 1444 01:21:14,431 --> 01:21:16,264 shut off power.... lt's bullshit. 1445 01:21:16,734 --> 01:21:21,604 l don't think John Markoff did it because he wanted to destroy Kevin. 1446 01:21:21,872 --> 01:21:26,002 But l think he did it to keep Kevin's evil image. 1447 01:21:26,109 --> 01:21:28,408 Maybe he believed some of the things himself. 1448 01:21:28,881 --> 01:21:30,814 Okay, isn't a newspaperman... 1449 01:21:30,916 --> 01:21:34,975 supposed to investigate something before they publish it... 1450 01:21:35,118 --> 01:21:37,747 before they put it in the newspaper as fact? 1451 01:21:38,256 --> 01:21:41,658 l know Spencer Tracy and Clark Gable always did. 1452 01:21:45,363 --> 01:21:49,960 We didn't know what we were walking into. Would Markoff tell us things about Mitnick... 1453 01:21:50,068 --> 01:21:52,662 that would shock and horrify us? Or would he realize... 1454 01:21:52,770 --> 01:21:55,706 how much his front-page stories and books had demonized Kevin... 1455 01:21:55,805 --> 01:21:58,569 helping to put him in the lousy place he was still in? 1456 01:21:58,676 --> 01:22:00,667 This was our one chance to make a difference. 1457 01:22:01,313 --> 01:22:04,212 And, more than anything, we wanted to be fair. 1458 01:22:04,614 --> 01:22:08,484 So we came up with the Markoff Meter. We set a bar on his left and right side... 1459 01:22:08,587 --> 01:22:12,386 and resolved not to judge him badly until he said six bad or inaccurate things. 1460 01:22:12,489 --> 01:22:14,185 And if he said six good things... 1461 01:22:14,292 --> 01:22:17,194 well, then, the hacker world would just have to deal with it. 1462 01:22:18,962 --> 01:22:21,158 Maybe this wouldn't be so bad. 1463 01:22:25,404 --> 01:22:27,529 Nowthere's an easy point for common courtesy. 1464 01:22:29,105 --> 01:22:31,096 l wanted to get to the heart of the matter 1465 01:22:31,207 --> 01:22:35,077 Like howthey knew it was Kevin they were chasing in the first place? 1466 01:22:36,148 --> 01:22:39,777 When l called the Qualcomm guys, they had been talking to the FBl. 1467 01:22:39,885 --> 01:22:43,514 And the FBl believed that it was Kevin who had social engineered them. 1468 01:22:43,622 --> 01:22:44,609 Why? 1469 01:22:46,823 --> 01:22:50,020 l don't know enough about what was going on... 1470 01:22:50,127 --> 01:22:51,755 inside the FBl investigation. 1471 01:22:52,162 --> 01:22:54,756 That's a good question. l don't know why 1472 01:22:54,864 --> 01:22:58,461 But the FBl told the Qualcomm people that it was Kevin. 1473 01:22:58,636 --> 01:23:01,399 And, to my mind, as a reporter, it fit Kevin's M.O. 1474 01:23:01,506 --> 01:23:03,804 -Which is what? -Social engineering. 1475 01:23:03,908 --> 01:23:05,238 Really good social engineering. 1476 01:23:05,344 --> 01:23:07,470 But there are thousands of hackers out there-- 1477 01:23:07,578 --> 01:23:09,103 That's true. 1478 01:23:09,514 --> 01:23:11,345 l'm not saying it's proof. 1479 01:23:11,448 --> 01:23:13,814 l'm simply saying the FBl believed it was Kevin. 1480 01:23:14,586 --> 01:23:17,817 Did they hear a voice or did they have a voice recording? 1481 01:23:18,657 --> 01:23:22,649 Did they have a voice recording? That's a good question. What did they have? 1482 01:23:22,761 --> 01:23:24,319 This we couldn't forgive. 1483 01:23:24,429 --> 01:23:28,229 Before you print front-page stories about people eluding the authorities... 1484 01:23:28,332 --> 01:23:30,663 shouldn't you have some real conclusive evidence? 1485 01:23:31,935 --> 01:23:33,564 What did Kevin do that was diferent? 1486 01:23:33,671 --> 01:23:36,800 He had a reputation as being a very good social engineer. 1487 01:23:38,310 --> 01:23:41,506 l've heard some tapes, l've heard some people assert this. 1488 01:23:42,581 --> 01:23:46,140 lf he in fact was the person who was at Qualcomm... 1489 01:23:46,251 --> 01:23:48,377 then he was a good social engineer. 1490 01:23:50,188 --> 01:23:53,988 Nowthat's better. No need to be stingy with the compliments, after all. 1491 01:23:54,091 --> 01:23:56,287 One thing that's been following Kevin Mitnick... 1492 01:23:56,395 --> 01:24:01,094 since the first story Markoff wrote about him is this myth about breaking into NORAD. 1493 01:24:01,198 --> 01:24:05,158 When you say something like that enough times, people start to believe it. 1494 01:24:05,502 --> 01:24:08,529 And in Kevin's case, it really made him into a villain. 1495 01:24:09,172 --> 01:24:11,573 So where did the NORAD stuff come from? 1496 01:24:12,176 --> 01:24:13,542 The NORAD stuff... 1497 01:24:14,179 --> 01:24:17,046 is stuff that l got from someone... 1498 01:24:17,149 --> 01:24:19,672 who was in legal trouble with Kevin early on. 1499 01:24:20,051 --> 01:24:24,546 So l have not been able to interview Kevin face to face. 1500 01:24:24,654 --> 01:24:28,353 l've heard he said that it's inaccurate but l haven't been able to ask him. 1501 01:24:28,460 --> 01:24:30,826 The story did come from a friend of his. 1502 01:24:31,063 --> 01:24:34,658 l knowthere are lots of stories and you gotta sort through them. 1503 01:24:35,332 --> 01:24:37,301 But what stories have stuck? 1504 01:24:37,402 --> 01:24:41,734 l remember the Kristy McNichol thing. That didn't stick. NORAD didn't stick. 1505 01:24:41,840 --> 01:24:46,470 Security Pacific l think is probably one that stuck, that probably should stick. 1506 01:24:46,645 --> 01:24:49,671 -You know about that? -The bank that he got a job at-- 1507 01:24:49,779 --> 01:24:52,341 That's right. And then there was a press release... 1508 01:24:52,451 --> 01:24:55,180 that suggested that the bank was in financial trouble... 1509 01:24:55,287 --> 01:24:58,188 though they managed to keep it of the wire, it almost went on. 1510 01:24:58,288 --> 01:25:00,154 But what links that to Kevin? 1511 01:25:00,256 --> 01:25:04,056 The police investigators that we interviewed believed it was Kevin. 1512 01:25:04,229 --> 01:25:05,694 Based on what? 1513 01:25:09,332 --> 01:25:10,801 Based on what.... 1514 01:25:11,770 --> 01:25:14,931 Just coincidence of things. Who else would do something like that? 1515 01:25:16,274 --> 01:25:17,969 You've got to be kidding! 1516 01:25:18,176 --> 01:25:20,609 You used ''who else'' to pin a crime on the guy... 1517 01:25:20,712 --> 01:25:22,542 on the front page of the NewYork Times... 1518 01:25:22,645 --> 01:25:25,274 without even using the word ''allegedly'' anywhere? 1519 01:25:25,381 --> 01:25:28,113 This was reported as fact but it was never backed up. 1520 01:25:28,220 --> 01:25:30,484 Just like NORAD, just like Kristy McNichol... 1521 01:25:30,587 --> 01:25:33,988 just like everything that made them want to catch Kevin so badly. 1522 01:25:34,091 --> 01:25:36,492 Let's look at the issue of solitary confinement. 1523 01:25:36,595 --> 01:25:38,654 lt wasn't mentioned in the front-page article... 1524 01:25:38,761 --> 01:25:42,390 that Kevin was in solitary for 8 months and was desperate not to go back... 1525 01:25:42,501 --> 01:25:45,229 and that this above all was what made him run. 1526 01:25:45,337 --> 01:25:47,805 l mean, he didn't want to go back to jail. 1527 01:25:47,904 --> 01:25:50,372 Not just jail, solitary confinement. Eight months. 1528 01:25:50,475 --> 01:25:52,943 Was he in solitary before? This was his first time. 1529 01:25:53,042 --> 01:25:54,203 1989. 1530 01:25:54,377 --> 01:25:57,109 He spent 8 months in solitary in 1989? l didn't realize. 1531 01:25:57,215 --> 01:26:01,618 Wait. He didn't spend 8 months in prison. He was only in prison for six months in '89. 1532 01:26:03,121 --> 01:26:06,247 You've written two books on the guy as well as countless articles. 1533 01:26:06,358 --> 01:26:08,417 You're somewhat of an expert on Kevin Mitnick... 1534 01:26:08,527 --> 01:26:10,893 and you didn't know he was in solitary confinement? 1535 01:26:10,996 --> 01:26:13,122 Or even how long his sentence was? 1536 01:26:13,229 --> 01:26:16,426 For the record, Mitnick spent a year in prison in 1988... 1537 01:26:16,533 --> 01:26:18,899 eight months of which was in solitary confinement... 1538 01:26:19,002 --> 01:26:21,493 plus another six months in a halfway house. 1539 01:26:21,971 --> 01:26:24,462 With the psychologists in town we could confirm... 1540 01:26:24,576 --> 01:26:27,636 locking Kevin in solitary was a fucked-up thing to do. 1541 01:26:31,814 --> 01:26:36,014 l think it's inhumane, and l think there are better ways to handle our problems. 1542 01:26:36,121 --> 01:26:39,783 Obviously if this person has been able to do some of the things... 1543 01:26:39,890 --> 01:26:43,292 that they think he was doing with a computer, he's very bright. 1544 01:26:43,395 --> 01:26:45,828 That's a real talent that's being wasted. 1545 01:26:46,162 --> 01:26:50,189 And, to lock him up, especially in solitary confinement for 8 months.... 1546 01:26:50,301 --> 01:26:52,532 We wouldn't treat an animal that way 1547 01:26:52,871 --> 01:26:56,203 And yet, this is a talented individual? Excuse me. 1548 01:26:57,175 --> 01:26:59,573 -lt's not right.Thank you. -Thanks very much. 1549 01:26:59,911 --> 01:27:02,778 Wait, he was in solitary the entire time he was at Lompoc? 1550 01:27:02,881 --> 01:27:05,247 A large amount of the time. Eight months. 1551 01:27:06,051 --> 01:27:07,746 Yeah, that's pretty hard. 1552 01:27:09,654 --> 01:27:13,145 Okay. Markoff gains a point for that show of humanity. 1553 01:27:13,756 --> 01:27:16,988 Now, here's something interesting. When Kevin was on the run... 1554 01:27:17,095 --> 01:27:20,426 he communicated with an lsraeli hacker known as jsz... 1555 01:27:20,532 --> 01:27:24,729 who's believed to be the mastermind behind the hacking that Kevin was blamed for. 1556 01:27:24,836 --> 01:27:27,270 Yet Markoff never wrote a story about him... 1557 01:27:27,372 --> 01:27:30,500 and didn't even followthrough when jsz moved to New York. 1558 01:27:30,609 --> 01:27:33,337 ln fact, none of the authorities seemed to care either... 1559 01:27:33,444 --> 01:27:36,005 almost as if these crimes were really trivial. 1560 01:27:36,113 --> 01:27:39,140 Nowthat would be a great story, wouldn't it, John? 1561 01:27:39,417 --> 01:27:41,180 l thought a lot about that. 1562 01:27:41,453 --> 01:27:46,152 l just haven't had time to do the reporting. l've got a day-to-day beat out here. 1563 01:27:46,725 --> 01:27:50,091 You're right. lt's probably a great story l would love to talk to jsz. 1564 01:27:50,194 --> 01:27:53,528 -l should come to New York-- -That story was going on back then. 1565 01:27:53,631 --> 01:27:57,225 Jsz was supposedly the mastermind behind everything. 1566 01:27:57,667 --> 01:27:59,569 l never knew what the relations were. 1567 01:27:59,671 --> 01:28:02,604 The only thing l could say that l knew.. 1568 01:28:02,707 --> 01:28:06,143 was that jsz and Kevin... 1569 01:28:06,243 --> 01:28:08,734 were actively trading information and software. 1570 01:28:08,845 --> 01:28:12,840 That's what l knew. l knew nothing about masterminding. 1571 01:28:14,719 --> 01:28:18,154 lf you asked me to reconstruct just from what l knew.. 1572 01:28:18,256 --> 01:28:21,555 it was jsz provided the tools and Kevin made the attack. 1573 01:28:21,658 --> 01:28:23,127 But l have no idea if that's true. 1574 01:28:24,560 --> 01:28:25,788 No idea? 1575 01:28:26,331 --> 01:28:31,198 lsn't this what the book, series of articles, and nowthe film are supposedly based on... 1576 01:28:31,301 --> 01:28:33,237 what Kevin actually did? 1577 01:28:33,805 --> 01:28:36,296 l was amazed by what he didn't know 1578 01:28:36,573 --> 01:28:40,237 But there was more that he did know and had never talked about before. 1579 01:28:40,345 --> 01:28:43,371 But one interesting thing that hasn't been made public. 1580 01:28:43,613 --> 01:28:47,413 You know, so much was made of the fact that the credit cards were never used. 1581 01:28:47,519 --> 01:28:48,917 They were used. 1582 01:28:49,453 --> 01:28:52,319 An American Express card, part of the Netcom collection... 1583 01:28:52,422 --> 01:28:56,917 was used in Raleigh within two days after Kevin was arrested. 1584 01:28:58,229 --> 01:28:59,489 So who used it? 1585 01:28:59,595 --> 01:29:03,087 -How did you find this out? -l've just known it for a long time. 1586 01:29:03,399 --> 01:29:05,698 You're saying the credit card was used in Raleigh... 1587 01:29:05,804 --> 01:29:08,238 and it was used after he was arrested? 1588 01:29:08,340 --> 01:29:12,242 There are indications that there was someone Kevin was in contact with... 1589 01:29:12,344 --> 01:29:15,541 who knewthis and may have been active in the Raleigh area. 1590 01:29:15,645 --> 01:29:18,411 All l'm saying is there's some evidence. 1591 01:29:18,515 --> 01:29:20,279 How come this wasn't in the book? 1592 01:29:20,385 --> 01:29:22,376 How come it wasn't in the book. Good question. 1593 01:29:22,487 --> 01:29:24,819 l don't know why we didn't put it in the book. 1594 01:29:26,157 --> 01:29:27,783 This was really getting annoying. 1595 01:29:27,890 --> 01:29:30,952 He didn't follow up on the most interesting part of the story.. 1596 01:29:31,060 --> 01:29:34,259 and he didn't mention the fact about the credit cards until now? 1597 01:29:34,364 --> 01:29:37,301 One more remark like that and it's all over for Markoff. 1598 01:29:39,770 --> 01:29:43,364 Look how many people are standing here and not one person took my brochure. 1599 01:29:43,475 --> 01:29:46,706 Look at all these people. Not one of them took this. 1600 01:29:48,145 --> 01:29:49,670 Valuable coupons! 1601 01:29:51,015 --> 01:29:52,676 What are they doing now? 1602 01:29:53,051 --> 01:29:55,519 Oh, Kevin Mitnick! He's the computer wizard. 1603 01:29:55,618 --> 01:29:59,112 The way that the Japanese wizard found him was very interesting. 1604 01:29:59,422 --> 01:30:02,689 Mitnick respected the Japanese wizard for tracking him. 1605 01:30:02,792 --> 01:30:03,988 On the other hand... 1606 01:30:04,095 --> 01:30:07,756 since the whole computer business is stupid and ridiculous to begin with... 1607 01:30:07,864 --> 01:30:12,166 why should Mitnick suffer for a ridiculous assault on the culture... 1608 01:30:12,301 --> 01:30:14,635 namely the computer. So that's it. 1609 01:30:14,738 --> 01:30:16,796 -What do you think of computers? -l hate them. 1610 01:30:16,908 --> 01:30:17,895 Why? 1611 01:30:18,341 --> 01:30:23,176 Because they're not like feeling skin, and they're not like walking in the forest. 1612 01:30:23,546 --> 01:30:26,711 And one can get lost deeply in them. 1613 01:30:26,818 --> 01:30:29,546 My son, of course, is in that world. 1614 01:30:29,854 --> 01:30:34,221 These people are computerphiles and he's a computerphobe. 1615 01:30:34,390 --> 01:30:38,158 Hackers are all right because they're anarchists, that's fine. 1616 01:30:38,261 --> 01:30:40,127 But the rest of it.... 1617 01:30:40,863 --> 01:30:42,797 -This is bullshit. -lt's pornography! 1618 01:30:42,899 --> 01:30:44,368 This is such bullshit! 1619 01:30:44,469 --> 01:30:46,993 l like Chaos Computer Club, l like anarchy. 1620 01:30:47,104 --> 01:30:49,435 -You know Chaos Computer Club? -No, but l like the whole idea. 1621 01:30:49,541 --> 01:30:51,475 He's never heard of it. He's saying this because-- 1622 01:30:51,576 --> 01:30:54,600 No, it's great. But Mitnick, it's ridiculous. 1623 01:30:55,613 --> 01:30:56,978 Look, an activist. 1624 01:30:59,117 --> 01:31:01,176 Look, a bag of artificial intelligence. 1625 01:31:01,286 --> 01:31:05,220 They're from the '80s but l still bought them. Just to get back to my roots. 1626 01:31:05,323 --> 01:31:08,759 lt's like the government's making him look like.... 1627 01:31:08,859 --> 01:31:13,591 lt's to create a hacker mythology so they can deprive other people of privacy... 1628 01:31:13,698 --> 01:31:14,858 and other stuff like that. 1629 01:31:14,966 --> 01:31:18,832 He hasn't done anything wrong. He hasn't done any financial damage to anybody 1630 01:31:18,935 --> 01:31:21,131 He's basically just like a scapegoat. 1631 01:31:21,238 --> 01:31:25,073 l think most of the kids that l hang out with are cool, geeky, hacker types. 1632 01:31:25,176 --> 01:31:29,112 They understand. Then there's my mom and everybody else. 1633 01:31:29,212 --> 01:31:32,181 Why would they have any reason to believe anything... 1634 01:31:32,283 --> 01:31:34,478 other than he's a total scumbag who.... 1635 01:31:34,586 --> 01:31:37,520 You know, like WarGames, the hacking. 1636 01:31:37,787 --> 01:31:41,189 That guy! Didn't he break into massive computer systems? 1637 01:31:41,292 --> 01:31:44,819 He's not accused of selling information, of destroying computers... 1638 01:31:44,929 --> 01:31:46,760 he's just accused of copying files. 1639 01:31:46,863 --> 01:31:49,832 Three-and-a-half years in prison for that. How does that sound? 1640 01:31:49,934 --> 01:31:51,993 Yeah, cool, wow, all right, great. Register to vote? 1641 01:31:52,103 --> 01:31:53,661 You're an activist, too? 1642 01:31:53,770 --> 01:31:55,761 lmagine if somebody made a film about you... 1643 01:31:55,872 --> 01:31:58,899 and they get this totally evil kind of guy to play you... 1644 01:31:59,277 --> 01:32:03,770 and take everything that you ever did and make you look like you're really terrible? 1645 01:32:04,046 --> 01:32:08,212 Look, there he is cheating on a crossword puzzle, too!That guy! 1646 01:32:10,453 --> 01:32:14,152 Many interesting items relating to Telegraph Street. 1647 01:32:14,259 --> 01:32:17,194 Street scene, one of the best places for street scene material! 1648 01:32:17,295 --> 01:32:19,319 Here on the street scene... 1649 01:32:19,430 --> 01:32:22,024 we've got newspapers, we got novels... 1650 01:32:22,131 --> 01:32:26,033 we got documentary calendars, nine calendars for nine years, man. 1651 01:32:26,435 --> 01:32:30,567 What sysadmin is gonna have dot slash in their path before usr/local/bin? 1652 01:32:30,675 --> 01:32:34,167 lt was cool. lt's about using SUlD and making a script called ls... 1653 01:32:34,279 --> 01:32:38,238 and keeping it in your home directory and creating a file with escape characters... 1654 01:32:38,349 --> 01:32:41,180 pretending to be a lamer, ''l need help deleting this.'' 1655 01:32:41,286 --> 01:32:43,277 And then they go and do an ls.... 1656 01:32:43,386 --> 01:32:47,881 But what sysadmin is gonna have dot slash in their path before usr/local/bin? 1657 01:32:48,457 --> 01:32:50,823 l don't know man, some of those hackers... 1658 01:32:51,462 --> 01:32:54,363 when l'm on my computer send me all this shit all at once. 1659 01:32:54,465 --> 01:32:56,296 -Like what? -l don't know. 1660 01:32:56,399 --> 01:32:58,631 All these messages. Makes my computer-- 1661 01:32:58,734 --> 01:33:01,466 -Are you onAOL by any chance? -No. Prodigy. 1662 01:33:02,073 --> 01:33:04,564 We've been bending over backwards to help this guy.. 1663 01:33:04,676 --> 01:33:07,439 and he's only one point away from disqualification. 1664 01:33:07,545 --> 01:33:09,536 Let's do an easy one, the film. 1665 01:33:09,747 --> 01:33:11,408 Everyone hates the film, right? 1666 01:33:11,515 --> 01:33:14,041 When l read the screenplay... 1667 01:33:14,152 --> 01:33:18,212 l was mostly just disappointed because it seemed like a crummy screenplay. 1668 01:33:19,090 --> 01:33:21,319 There we go. He's back in the running. 1669 01:33:21,426 --> 01:33:24,862 With one clip to go, the best Markoff could hope for was a tie. 1670 01:33:25,261 --> 01:33:27,823 So l gave him a chance to show some humanity. 1671 01:33:27,930 --> 01:33:30,867 l asked him to help us help Kevin and sign a petition... 1672 01:33:30,969 --> 01:33:33,961 to get him released from prison and end the nightmare. 1673 01:33:34,770 --> 01:33:38,537 He didn't want to sign the petition but he had a better idea. 1674 01:33:38,810 --> 01:33:41,470 lf you could pass a message to Kevin... 1675 01:33:41,779 --> 01:33:45,943 and say if he'd be willing to sit down and talk to me before his trial... 1676 01:33:46,551 --> 01:33:50,715 l would love to do a piece. And l think that's perfectly fair. 1677 01:33:53,224 --> 01:33:56,091 lf nothing else, you gotta give the guy credit for trying. 1678 01:33:56,194 --> 01:34:00,390 More than a decade of writing about Kevin and he still had yet to talk to him. 1679 01:34:00,698 --> 01:34:01,430 lt was time for our last corporate visit. 1680 01:34:01,430 --> 01:34:02,966 lt was time for our last corporate visit. 1681 01:34:02,966 --> 01:34:07,233 Novell, who claimed Kevin cost them more than $75 million. 1682 01:34:07,505 --> 01:34:10,529 We went to their corporate headquarters in Provo, Utah. 1683 01:34:10,675 --> 01:34:13,006 Okay, nowthe road says ''180 East.'' 1684 01:34:14,545 --> 01:34:18,412 All right, we want 122 East, 1700 South. 1685 01:34:19,984 --> 01:34:21,975 lt's like some locker combination. 1686 01:34:23,087 --> 01:34:24,645 Okay, here we are. 1687 01:34:26,157 --> 01:34:28,751 ls there somebody in charge of security maybe? 1688 01:34:29,527 --> 01:34:31,859 The person in charge of security is.... 1689 01:34:35,233 --> 01:34:36,823 He's just brand-new 1690 01:34:36,934 --> 01:34:40,461 Check that out.This guy is so worried about us seeing his nametag... 1691 01:34:40,569 --> 01:34:44,701 that he went through this acrobatic act to turn it over nice and casual-like. 1692 01:34:45,274 --> 01:34:48,243 But in the end, it was just like everywhere else. 1693 01:34:49,011 --> 01:34:51,207 Nobody was allowed to say anything. 1694 01:34:53,317 --> 01:34:55,408 But, at least, we tried. 1695 01:34:57,055 --> 01:34:59,078 Hey, pal, look down. Whoops! 1696 01:35:01,225 --> 01:35:03,953 So the last corporate door had been closed on us. 1697 01:35:04,095 --> 01:35:05,029 And now we had one last task... 1698 01:35:05,029 --> 01:35:06,296 And now we had one last task... 1699 01:35:06,296 --> 01:35:08,595 to head across the country and stop the film. 1700 01:35:09,167 --> 01:35:12,295 We knew it wouldn't work. We always knew it wouldn't work. 1701 01:35:12,403 --> 01:35:14,997 That's what hacking's been about from the beginning. 1702 01:35:15,104 --> 01:35:18,631 Doing things that you knew wouldn't work, just because you had to. 1703 01:35:18,743 --> 01:35:21,712 And trying to ignore the shit happening to your friends... 1704 01:35:21,813 --> 01:35:24,872 and trying not to feel bad when you couldn't change a thing. 1705 01:35:24,980 --> 01:35:26,916 As we drove from state to state... 1706 01:35:27,018 --> 01:35:30,545 l thought of how bad it could get, how bad it had already gotten. 1707 01:35:30,654 --> 01:35:33,283 l remembered what they do to people who piss them off. 1708 01:35:33,457 --> 01:35:35,688 l remembered what they did to Bernie. 1709 01:35:36,394 --> 01:35:38,760 The Bernie S. case, as far as l'm concerned... 1710 01:35:38,863 --> 01:35:41,832 got blown out of proportion by a lot of things. 1711 01:35:41,931 --> 01:35:44,332 lt got blown out of proportion by the prosecution... 1712 01:35:44,435 --> 01:35:49,064 who knew what exactly he had done and their representation of it... 1713 01:35:49,171 --> 01:35:53,939 was almost to make him look like the guy who blew up the Murrah Federal Building. 1714 01:35:54,078 --> 01:35:58,104 To do that was an incredible leap. But they managed to pass that of. 1715 01:35:58,614 --> 01:36:01,845 They made Bernie S. look like an absolute terrorist. 1716 01:36:01,953 --> 01:36:05,854 The new statute that my attorney had never heard of and neither had l... 1717 01:36:06,323 --> 01:36:09,760 that, in fact, wasn't even in the law books yet... 1718 01:36:10,895 --> 01:36:13,796 makes it a federal felony to possess... 1719 01:36:14,864 --> 01:36:16,527 hardware or software... 1720 01:36:16,634 --> 01:36:19,533 for the modification of telecommunications instruments... 1721 01:36:19,636 --> 01:36:22,697 for the unauthorized access to telecommunications services. 1722 01:36:22,805 --> 01:36:26,172 l wasn't accused or alleged to have done anything with software... 1723 01:36:26,277 --> 01:36:29,269 or ever cloned a cellular phone or anything of that nature. 1724 01:36:29,380 --> 01:36:32,042 Just the mere possession of these things... 1725 01:36:32,181 --> 01:36:35,710 now constituted a federal felony according to this new statute. 1726 01:36:35,853 --> 01:36:38,287 The judge ordered me held without bail... 1727 01:36:38,456 --> 01:36:40,149 based on the fact that books... 1728 01:36:40,256 --> 01:36:43,421 in fact, l think l had two books in my home... 1729 01:36:44,127 --> 01:36:48,359 on howfireworks, explosives are made. That stuff has fascinated me. 1730 01:36:48,466 --> 01:36:51,060 l had about 2,000 books in my personal library. 1731 01:36:51,167 --> 01:36:55,162 What little media attention the case got made Bernie look like a dangerous maniac. 1732 01:36:55,273 --> 01:36:57,537 He had never stolen anything, not even a phone call. 1733 01:36:57,640 --> 01:37:01,667 Everything used to make him look like a terrorist, he had legitimately obtained. 1734 01:37:01,779 --> 01:37:04,907 When the Secret Service wants you in prison, nobody asks them why 1735 01:37:05,015 --> 01:37:06,313 Not even a judge. 1736 01:37:06,751 --> 01:37:11,015 ''Your Honor, when we initially searched Mr. Cummings' house... 1737 01:37:11,587 --> 01:37:15,046 ''federal agents discovered a substance... 1738 01:37:15,193 --> 01:37:17,889 ''they believed to be C4 plastic explosives. 1739 01:37:20,331 --> 01:37:22,662 ''While upon later analysis... 1740 01:37:23,332 --> 01:37:25,529 ''it turned out not to be C4... 1741 01:37:25,636 --> 01:37:28,399 ''the fact that it might have been concerned us greatly. 1742 01:37:28,506 --> 01:37:32,908 ''And, based on that, we'd recommend for a stronger sentence.'' 1743 01:37:33,211 --> 01:37:35,770 The judge didn't even blink at that sort of a thing. 1744 01:37:35,880 --> 01:37:39,179 Then the prosecutor made a startling revelation to Bernie's lawyer. 1745 01:37:39,283 --> 01:37:41,613 She told him she was under a lot of pressure... 1746 01:37:41,719 --> 01:37:44,381 to prosecute this case by the Secret Service... 1747 01:37:44,988 --> 01:37:48,787 and that, in fact, the real reason, and that's a quote: 1748 01:37:48,893 --> 01:37:52,020 ''the real reason'' Ed is in jail... 1749 01:37:52,930 --> 01:37:56,229 was not because of crystals or software or anything like that. 1750 01:37:56,332 --> 01:37:59,631 lt was because of other things that they found in my house. 1751 01:38:00,738 --> 01:38:01,898 Namely: 1752 01:38:02,907 --> 01:38:07,104 surveillance photographs of undercover Secret Service agents. 1753 01:38:07,612 --> 01:38:10,341 So l made these photos available at the 2600 meeting... 1754 01:38:10,448 --> 01:38:14,314 and it apparently was a coincidence because l didn't call them... 1755 01:38:14,417 --> 01:38:17,046 but the local Fox television affiliate... 1756 01:38:17,854 --> 01:38:21,256 Fox 29 in Philadelphia, their news division, showed up at the meeting. 1757 01:38:21,359 --> 01:38:23,953 Most are between their mid-teens to late 20s. 1758 01:38:24,060 --> 01:38:27,724 They gather every Friday night at 30th Street Station for all to see. 1759 01:38:27,832 --> 01:38:31,393 lt's called the 2600 meeting, named after a telephone frequency... 1760 01:38:31,502 --> 01:38:33,297 and meetings like these are advertised... 1761 01:38:33,404 --> 01:38:35,837 in a hi-tech magazine you can buy at a bookstore. 1762 01:38:35,939 --> 01:38:39,136 Some hackers call themselves ''fighters for the freedom of information.'' 1763 01:38:39,243 --> 01:38:41,871 The US Secret Service monitors some hackers. 1764 01:38:41,979 --> 01:38:44,310 But hackers say it should be the other way around. 1765 01:38:44,413 --> 01:38:47,907 ln this photograph the Secret Service agent is picking his nose. 1766 01:38:48,920 --> 01:38:50,886 The Secret Service didn't find it humorous. 1767 01:38:50,988 --> 01:38:53,684 Not only did they have some of their agents' covers blown... 1768 01:38:53,791 --> 01:38:58,353 but they were picking their noses on a major market television news station. 1769 01:38:59,729 --> 01:39:01,993 We all thought that was amusing... 1770 01:39:02,364 --> 01:39:04,560 until l was in federal prison... 1771 01:39:04,667 --> 01:39:08,604 and l found out that the real reason l was locked up was because of that. 1772 01:39:09,273 --> 01:39:10,261 For a year-and-a-half... 1773 01:39:10,372 --> 01:39:14,399 Bernie was bounced around maximum security prisons throughout Pennsylvania. 1774 01:39:15,179 --> 01:39:17,738 l think they got tired of me filing these appeals... 1775 01:39:17,846 --> 01:39:22,546 because l found myself in handcufs and shackles and taken up to... 1776 01:39:23,787 --> 01:39:27,019 Lehigh County Prison which had a reputation... 1777 01:39:27,524 --> 01:39:31,051 amongst prisoners l had talked to over the past year... 1778 01:39:32,261 --> 01:39:35,287 as probably one of the roughest prisons in Pennsylvania. 1779 01:39:35,399 --> 01:39:37,560 Within a day, Bernie was attacked. 1780 01:39:37,935 --> 01:39:41,496 He punched me in the mouth and l went down. 1781 01:39:41,904 --> 01:39:44,841 He was a big guy, probably weighed like 220 pounds... 1782 01:39:46,344 --> 01:39:49,506 and l think it turned out later he was on drugs... 1783 01:39:49,979 --> 01:39:52,108 coming down off crack or something. 1784 01:39:53,551 --> 01:39:57,350 l went down and he started to kick me in the head... 1785 01:39:57,453 --> 01:40:00,685 and l put my arm up to block his kick and it broke my arm also. 1786 01:40:00,791 --> 01:40:04,750 After bleeding for hours, Bernie was finally taken to the hospital... 1787 01:40:04,862 --> 01:40:07,886 but the authorities refused to let him contact his relatives. 1788 01:40:07,997 --> 01:40:09,899 The hospital wanted me to sign this waiver. 1789 01:40:10,001 --> 01:40:13,127 Whenever you go into surgery you have to sign this thing saying... 1790 01:40:13,237 --> 01:40:16,694 that you understand all the risks involved. l refused to sign the paper. 1791 01:40:16,805 --> 01:40:19,104 l said, not until l get a hold of my uncle... 1792 01:40:19,210 --> 01:40:22,439 or at least let somebody in my family know what's going on. 1793 01:40:23,113 --> 01:40:26,377 The prison officials went bananas that l wouldn't sign this waiver. 1794 01:40:26,484 --> 01:40:30,613 lt was a liability for them that l wasn't getting medical treatment. 1795 01:40:31,020 --> 01:40:35,252 l was severely injured and they needed to operate on me right away. 1796 01:40:35,359 --> 01:40:38,157 lt got all the way up to the warden at this place. 1797 01:40:39,529 --> 01:40:42,292 My uncle was a known person in the community. 1798 01:40:42,399 --> 01:40:45,528 He'd been the president of the city council. They knew who he was. 1799 01:40:45,636 --> 01:40:49,970 He wasn't someone who'd run down there and try to spring me out of the hospital. 1800 01:40:50,239 --> 01:40:53,073 Meanwhile, l was handcuffed and shackled... 1801 01:40:53,310 --> 01:40:58,042 to the hospital bed, which was ridiculous. l didn't feel like going anywhere. 1802 01:40:58,582 --> 01:41:00,047 l was in bad shape. 1803 01:41:01,886 --> 01:41:03,979 With a guard sitting there with a gun... 1804 01:41:04,087 --> 01:41:06,988 making sure that l didn't break the handcuffs and run away. 1805 01:41:07,091 --> 01:41:11,287 l was denied antibiotics for two days. 1806 01:41:11,662 --> 01:41:14,288 l was denied any painkillers at all... 1807 01:41:14,398 --> 01:41:18,332 not even aspirin which l couldn't take because my teeth were wired shut... 1808 01:41:18,435 --> 01:41:21,269 and l was probably in the most excruciating pain... 1809 01:41:22,404 --> 01:41:25,863 that l've ever had, which was more than l could ever imagine... 1810 01:41:25,975 --> 01:41:27,966 having multiple fractures. 1811 01:41:30,814 --> 01:41:35,274 lt was like being in an altered state of consciousness, this much pain. 1812 01:41:35,618 --> 01:41:37,779 They weren't bringing me food l could eat. 1813 01:41:37,886 --> 01:41:41,153 They brought solid food which l couldn't eat because my jaw was wired shut! 1814 01:41:41,256 --> 01:41:43,417 l was getting to the point where.... 1815 01:41:44,295 --> 01:41:47,729 l was starting to feel like, ''l don't care anymore.'' 1816 01:41:49,364 --> 01:41:52,233 l was really feeling like, ''l give up.'' 1817 01:41:52,470 --> 01:41:54,529 l was losing my will to go ahead. 1818 01:41:55,171 --> 01:41:57,697 l was able to get a phone call out the next day... 1819 01:41:57,806 --> 01:42:00,140 tell people where l was, what was going on. 1820 01:42:00,243 --> 01:42:04,180 And that was when a major telephone campaign... 1821 01:42:04,582 --> 01:42:07,608 and lnternet crusade started... 1822 01:42:08,752 --> 01:42:10,082 gaining momentum. 1823 01:42:10,252 --> 01:42:14,917 We had state representatives getting called. l mean, like major politicians got calls... 1824 01:42:15,024 --> 01:42:19,189 and they called saying, ''What's with this? What's this generating all the publicity for?'' 1825 01:42:19,296 --> 01:42:23,060 Finally, the prison and the judge realized they didn't need this publicity 1826 01:42:23,167 --> 01:42:27,604 They wanted to get this thing over with and wash their hands of it. So the judge... 1827 01:42:29,273 --> 01:42:32,502 signed an order to have me released on a medical furlough... 1828 01:42:32,609 --> 01:42:35,010 which the guards had never even heard of before. 1829 01:42:35,112 --> 01:42:38,444 They said, ''What is that? People die here. We don't even let them out!'' 1830 01:42:38,547 --> 01:42:42,006 So this was an unusual thing. l'm convinced... 1831 01:42:43,020 --> 01:42:47,614 that all the publicity generated by 2600 Magazine... 1832 01:42:47,858 --> 01:42:49,826 the lnternet, their website... 1833 01:42:50,528 --> 01:42:53,051 radio interviews, l even forgot to mention that. 1834 01:42:53,162 --> 01:42:57,725 l'd been repeatedly interviewed on WBAl's Off The Hook show... 1835 01:42:58,301 --> 01:42:59,929 with Emmanuel Goldstein... 1836 01:43:00,037 --> 01:43:02,595 and people were following this case from the beginning... 1837 01:43:02,706 --> 01:43:06,608 and it was generating a lot of attention that way as well. 1838 01:43:06,710 --> 01:43:08,939 l got letters, l got hundreds of letters. 1839 01:43:09,046 --> 01:43:12,377 We had gotten him out but it sure didn't feel like a victory 1840 01:43:12,850 --> 01:43:14,613 And the scars were permanent. 1841 01:43:14,716 --> 01:43:16,207 They had to put a.... 1842 01:43:16,386 --> 01:43:18,787 The surgeons mounted... 1843 01:43:19,122 --> 01:43:23,389 a titanium bar in my arm. 1844 01:43:23,827 --> 01:43:26,453 l don't know if you can see it or not. 1845 01:43:26,564 --> 01:43:31,466 A nice scar from here to here where they put this titanium bar in... 1846 01:43:31,734 --> 01:43:35,728 and seven stainless-steel screws. This is how much my arm opens now. 1847 01:43:35,837 --> 01:43:39,739 That's it. That's my full range of motion in my left arm. 1848 01:43:39,841 --> 01:43:43,506 Unlike my good arm which straightens out. Anyway, that's what l got. 1849 01:43:43,680 --> 01:43:47,274 My jaw doesn't open as much as it used to. 1850 01:43:47,384 --> 01:43:51,286 lf l'm trying to bite an apple, l can't get it in like l used to. 1851 01:43:51,787 --> 01:43:53,345 But l live with it. 1852 01:43:55,626 --> 01:43:56,460 We crossed the entire country and were finally closing in on the Takedown set. 1853 01:43:56,460 --> 01:43:59,761 We crossed the entire country and were finally closing in on the Takedown set. 1854 01:43:59,761 --> 01:44:01,390 But there was a problem. 1855 01:44:01,497 --> 01:44:04,524 lt seems that the hurricane... 1856 01:44:05,469 --> 01:44:09,734 is making a beeline for the set at this point in time. 1857 01:44:10,140 --> 01:44:14,734 ln fact, it's estimated that it will reach and destroy the set by sometime tomorrow. 1858 01:44:15,212 --> 01:44:17,645 And, that's something that causes me concern... 1859 01:44:17,747 --> 01:44:20,841 because it's not like that's something we wanted to have happen. 1860 01:44:20,951 --> 01:44:25,251 l fear that one of the listeners or one of the subscribers or somebody... 1861 01:44:25,622 --> 01:44:28,216 may have called upon almightyAllah... 1862 01:44:28,323 --> 01:44:30,622 or Christ or whatever... 1863 01:44:30,728 --> 01:44:34,685 to rain forth upon these people with all kinds of venom. 1864 01:44:35,265 --> 01:44:38,564 l'd like to stress at this point that that's not what we meant to do. 1865 01:44:38,667 --> 01:44:41,229 That's not exactly how l want things to turn out. 1866 01:44:41,337 --> 01:44:45,536 l fear that the Takedown people aren't taking this seriously. 1867 01:44:46,510 --> 01:44:50,344 lf you look at the map, if you look at the news reports... 1868 01:44:50,712 --> 01:44:55,014 you will see the eye of the hurricane, you will see the direction it's heading for... 1869 01:44:55,118 --> 01:44:58,712 you will see a little dot that indicates Takedown being produced there. 1870 01:44:58,822 --> 01:45:01,948 That is where it's heading. This is like the scene in Twister... 1871 01:45:02,059 --> 01:45:05,926 where the rival gangs of twister watchers are trying to warn each other: 1872 01:45:06,029 --> 01:45:08,189 ''This is the big one!'' Well, this is the big one. 1873 01:45:08,297 --> 01:45:09,960 They were looking at this thing... 1874 01:45:10,067 --> 01:45:13,594 and they saw another hurricane contained within this hurricane. 1875 01:45:13,871 --> 01:45:16,237 And they say they've never seen that before. 1876 01:45:16,340 --> 01:45:19,867 And, if that's not enough for you, Hurricane Bonnie. 1877 01:45:20,243 --> 01:45:22,974 Bonnie is the name of Kevin Mitnick's ex-wife. 1878 01:45:23,078 --> 01:45:27,140 Nowthe metaphor just could not be more perfect for me. 1879 01:45:27,384 --> 01:45:31,411 Of course, we didn't take our own advice and drove straight into the storm. 1880 01:45:37,225 --> 01:45:41,527 We thought we might be able to get a lot closer to the set if nobody was around. 1881 01:45:41,765 --> 01:45:43,060 We were right. 1882 01:45:49,872 --> 01:45:53,069 They seemed to have a real fixation on gun safety in this place. 1883 01:45:53,176 --> 01:45:55,337 You had to wonder what had happened. 1884 01:45:58,448 --> 01:46:02,975 We took a little tour of the restricted area past the unguarded guardhouse. 1885 01:46:11,060 --> 01:46:12,493 The storm passed. 1886 01:46:12,828 --> 01:46:15,319 And while we were exploring the next day... 1887 01:46:15,631 --> 01:46:17,359 we made a discovery. 1888 01:46:18,868 --> 01:46:21,497 And they all want Free Kevin stickers. The whole crew. 1889 01:46:21,604 --> 01:46:25,301 lf you give me some, l will send it to them. They will put them on their cars. 1890 01:46:25,408 --> 01:46:26,931 Was it really this easy? 1891 01:46:27,042 --> 01:46:29,569 Had we discovered where the Takedown people were... 1892 01:46:29,680 --> 01:46:31,408 through our own bumper sticker? 1893 01:46:31,515 --> 01:46:33,813 -l have Mr. Wong in Number 9. -Russell Wong. 1894 01:46:33,917 --> 01:46:35,782 Yeah. He's in Number 9. 1895 01:46:35,886 --> 01:46:37,944 -ls he still here? -l think he is. 1896 01:46:38,055 --> 01:46:41,786 The receptionist went out of her way to tell us where everyone was staying. 1897 01:46:41,890 --> 01:46:44,417 And while the guy playing Shimomura wasn't in... 1898 01:46:44,528 --> 01:46:47,929 we found the producer who promised us an interviewthat coming Sunday. 1899 01:46:48,029 --> 01:46:49,930 The place was swarming with celebrities... 1900 01:46:50,033 --> 01:46:53,694 like cast members from Dawson's Creek engaging in decadent behavior. 1901 01:46:54,872 --> 01:46:58,033 We wandered around town, taking in the carnage from Bonnie... 1902 01:46:58,140 --> 01:46:59,939 seeing the desperate people. 1903 01:47:00,911 --> 01:47:04,310 We witnessed civilization brought to a standstill. 1904 01:47:11,220 --> 01:47:12,688 Roads were closed... 1905 01:47:14,556 --> 01:47:15,957 power was out... 1906 01:47:20,296 --> 01:47:21,957 trees were knocked down. 1907 01:47:23,466 --> 01:47:25,229 But it didn't matter. 1908 01:47:25,435 --> 01:47:28,371 We were going to finally talk to the Takedown people! 1909 01:47:30,274 --> 01:47:32,902 There was nothing to do, the computer store was closed. 1910 01:47:33,010 --> 01:47:36,104 We had four days to kill so we drove all the way to Raleigh... 1911 01:47:36,212 --> 01:47:38,545 to see the town where Kevin Mitnick was captured. 1912 01:47:38,649 --> 01:47:42,105 The cellular towers where Markoff and Shimomura tracked Kevin's signal. 1913 01:47:42,219 --> 01:47:44,913 And this was the apartment complex it led them to. 1914 01:47:45,020 --> 01:47:47,614 And this was Kevin's actual apartment. 1915 01:47:48,125 --> 01:47:50,216 -You have a computer yourself? -Yeah. 1916 01:47:50,327 --> 01:47:51,487 Be careful. 1917 01:47:51,595 --> 01:47:53,563 l'll keep that in mind. 1918 01:47:53,662 --> 01:47:57,862 We foundTakedown crew members in Wilmington where the power was restored. 1919 01:47:57,966 --> 01:48:02,268 You have to remember that film is usually for fourth-grade mentalities. 1920 01:48:02,372 --> 01:48:05,305 Skeet is definitely.... He's a great actor. 1921 01:48:07,077 --> 01:48:10,274 He's the most natural actor, so Kevin's lucky. 1922 01:48:11,582 --> 01:48:13,140 He's very charismatic. 1923 01:48:13,250 --> 01:48:17,015 There's nothing you can do to Skeet Ulrich that makes him uncharismatic. 1924 01:48:17,118 --> 01:48:20,145 So that's kind of, l mean, from your side, it's kind of... 1925 01:48:20,256 --> 01:48:22,247 he's lucky, you know? 1926 01:48:22,591 --> 01:48:25,890 l promised to tell Kevin how lucky he was next time l talked to him. 1927 01:48:25,996 --> 01:48:27,987 But now it was time for our interview. 1928 01:48:28,096 --> 01:48:30,532 We had been in North Carolina for five days. 1929 01:48:30,634 --> 01:48:31,997 But something was wrong. 1930 01:48:32,100 --> 01:48:35,832 Miramax had changed their mind and nowthey didn't want to talk to us. 1931 01:48:35,939 --> 01:48:38,872 So we staged an impromptu protest outside the studio. 1932 01:48:38,975 --> 01:48:41,877 And as we were leaving, destiny hit us again. 1933 01:48:42,377 --> 01:48:42,944 This time we wouldn't let them escape. 1934 01:48:42,944 --> 01:48:46,716 This time we wouldn't let them escape. 1935 01:48:46,716 --> 01:48:49,777 We drove next door and waited for them to leave. 1936 01:48:52,189 --> 01:48:54,453 There he goes. Yeah. 1937 01:48:57,792 --> 01:49:00,819 And off he goes into the wild blue yonder 1938 01:49:01,096 --> 01:49:03,362 This is the realTakedown! 1939 01:49:07,537 --> 01:49:09,198 We had two cars on our side... 1940 01:49:09,305 --> 01:49:13,207 we would outflank them, chase them, ambush them, whatever it took. 1941 01:49:24,087 --> 01:49:27,523 -l wish l didn't have these running lights. -Close enough. Go. 1942 01:49:29,225 --> 01:49:31,786 For six weeks we'd been trying to talk to these people... 1943 01:49:31,895 --> 01:49:34,193 and we hadn't even gotten a phone call back. 1944 01:49:34,296 --> 01:49:35,890 So this is what it came down to: 1945 01:49:35,997 --> 01:49:38,466 A cat-and-mouse game in the streets of Wilmington. 1946 01:49:38,569 --> 01:49:41,037 They didn't know who they were dealing with. 1947 01:49:41,738 --> 01:49:43,533 He's making a U-turn. 1948 01:49:44,408 --> 01:49:46,774 He's making a U-turn, that motherfucker 1949 01:49:47,377 --> 01:49:49,072 -Oh, God. -No, he's getting gas. 1950 01:49:49,179 --> 01:49:52,908 -Man, there's a boat in the way. -And only eight minutes left on this tape. 1951 01:49:53,015 --> 01:49:55,109 What do we do now?This is just great. 1952 01:49:55,216 --> 01:49:57,412 This is just so typical North Carolina-ish. 1953 01:49:57,520 --> 01:49:59,886 Fucking boat blocking us on the street. 1954 01:50:00,090 --> 01:50:02,386 -He's not there. -Oh, man! 1955 01:50:05,362 --> 01:50:08,331 This guy's good.This guy's real good. 1956 01:50:13,002 --> 01:50:16,131 They took off that way. l think they know we're behind them. 1957 01:50:16,238 --> 01:50:18,537 They made a U-turn and went into the gas station. 1958 01:50:18,640 --> 01:50:20,166 Really? That's why. 1959 01:50:20,277 --> 01:50:22,801 -Did they then go that way? -They did go that way. 1960 01:50:22,912 --> 01:50:24,743 After they made the U-turn? 1961 01:50:24,846 --> 01:50:27,009 They left the gas station and went that way? 1962 01:50:27,117 --> 01:50:29,413 -They went that way. -When? After the gas station? 1963 01:50:29,519 --> 01:50:31,350 A few minutes ago. l waited. 1964 01:50:31,453 --> 01:50:33,649 l thought maybe you'd come by 1965 01:50:33,788 --> 01:50:36,054 So they're headed that way and l don't know where. 1966 01:50:36,158 --> 01:50:37,283 So let's go. 1967 01:50:37,394 --> 01:50:38,884 -Where are we gonna go? -Forward. 1968 01:50:38,996 --> 01:50:41,122 Even if we go forward at maximum warp... 1969 01:50:41,229 --> 01:50:44,198 we can't catch them because they're doing the same thing. 1970 01:50:44,301 --> 01:50:47,099 Let's face it guys, we lost.They beat us. 1971 01:51:01,251 --> 01:51:02,877 -Shakes? -Yeah. 1972 01:51:03,220 --> 01:51:04,243 Shakes. 1973 01:51:04,819 --> 01:51:07,720 There's always the outside chance they'll get a shake too. 1974 01:51:08,189 --> 01:51:09,658 We had failed. 1975 01:51:09,826 --> 01:51:11,487 We never found Shimomura... 1976 01:51:11,595 --> 01:51:14,029 we never got to talk to the Takedown people... 1977 01:51:14,131 --> 01:51:18,122 and we never got past the lobby in any of the corporations we visited. 1978 01:51:18,234 --> 01:51:20,930 Worst of all, Kevin was still in prison. 1979 01:51:21,904 --> 01:51:22,005 1999 sawthe Free Kevin Movement reach a fever pitch. 1980 01:51:22,005 --> 01:51:26,810 1999 sawthe Free Kevin Movement reach a fever pitch. 1981 01:51:26,810 --> 01:51:30,109 The media wouldn't cover it, so the message went on hacked web pages. 1982 01:51:36,019 --> 01:51:37,247 And for the first time... 1983 01:51:37,354 --> 01:51:40,948 hackers marched in the streets in 15 cities all over the world... 1984 01:51:41,489 --> 01:51:43,980 even overseas in England and Russia. 1985 01:51:44,261 --> 01:51:45,658 lt was an amazing spectacle... 1986 01:51:45,761 --> 01:51:49,528 and more people learned about Kevin's plight than ever before. 1987 01:51:51,201 --> 01:51:54,930 Even though Kevin Mitnick saw his fourth year behind bars come and go... 1988 01:51:55,037 --> 01:51:57,698 we felt like we were getting somewhere. 1989 01:51:59,710 --> 01:52:01,676 Excuse me? What are you doing? 1990 01:52:03,947 --> 01:52:06,846 And in the end, Kevin did what he had to do... 1991 01:52:06,948 --> 01:52:09,817 to avoid spending the next 10 years behind bars. 1992 01:52:11,688 --> 01:52:15,988 You're watching Southern California's CBS 2 News at 6:30. 1993 01:52:16,259 --> 01:52:19,228 Good evening. l'm Gretchen Carr. Ann Martin is off tonight. 1994 01:52:19,328 --> 01:52:21,488 And l'm Michael Tuck. Up front at 6:30... 1995 01:52:21,596 --> 01:52:25,090 a guilty plea by notorious computer hacker Kevin David Mitnick. 1996 01:52:25,335 --> 01:52:26,893 Juan Fernandez joins us live... 1997 01:52:27,002 --> 01:52:29,301 from the Federal Courthouse in downtown LosAngeles. 1998 01:52:29,404 --> 01:52:30,997 He was the first computer hacker... 1999 01:52:31,108 --> 01:52:33,770 to make it to the FBl's Most Wanted List. 2000 01:52:33,877 --> 01:52:36,277 And after a long battle with the federal government... 2001 01:52:36,377 --> 01:52:39,746 the 35-year-old man from the San Fernando Valley comes clean. 2002 01:52:39,850 --> 01:52:43,944 His computer crimes apparently cost companies millions of dollars... 2003 01:52:44,220 --> 01:52:47,917 although Kevin Mitnick never admitted to them until today.. 2004 01:52:48,158 --> 01:52:51,059 ending a four-year battle with the federal government. 2005 01:52:51,161 --> 01:52:52,457 This is a very serious crime. 2006 01:52:52,560 --> 01:52:54,894 The federal government takes this crime seriously. 2007 01:52:54,997 --> 01:52:56,260 We will prosecute hackers... 2008 01:52:56,364 --> 01:52:59,265 particularly when they cause significant amounts of damage. 2009 01:52:59,368 --> 01:53:02,099 Mitnick nowfaces 46 months in jail. 2010 01:53:02,203 --> 01:53:05,470 He's already served eight months, and according to his attorney... 2011 01:53:05,573 --> 01:53:09,636 with good behavior, Mitnick might only have to serve one more year. 2012 01:53:10,011 --> 01:53:12,537 Mitnick will pay for his crimes for the rest of his life. 2013 01:53:12,649 --> 01:53:14,582 Although his attorneys say he has no money... 2014 01:53:14,684 --> 01:53:17,015 to pay restitution to the companies that he hacked... 2015 01:53:17,118 --> 01:53:19,680 that doesn't mean that they won't go after him later. 2016 01:53:19,788 --> 01:53:22,256 lt was as if we hadn't said a word. 2017 01:53:23,760 --> 01:53:27,957 l pray that they never wind up in the legal system. 2018 01:53:29,698 --> 01:53:31,221 l pray that nobody does. 2019 01:53:31,332 --> 01:53:34,301 But the thing is that if they do... 2020 01:53:35,270 --> 01:53:39,037 right nowthe way it stands, the cards are stacked against them. 2021 01:53:39,509 --> 01:53:40,567 lt's not about fairness. 2022 01:53:40,676 --> 01:53:43,805 lt's just about the way the legal game is played. 2023 01:53:44,712 --> 01:53:46,908 lt's crazy to bring up the O.J. Simpson case... 2024 01:53:47,015 --> 01:53:48,541 because there's no comparison here... 2025 01:53:48,652 --> 01:53:52,554 but here's a case where a defendant had basically an unlimited budget... 2026 01:53:52,756 --> 01:53:54,621 and look what that legal team accomplished. 2027 01:53:54,724 --> 01:53:57,420 l'm not saying you need a lot of money to get off for something you did. 2028 01:53:57,527 --> 01:54:00,551 l'm saying it doesn't matter whether you did it or not. 2029 01:54:00,764 --> 01:54:02,457 The case, the legal system... 2030 01:54:02,564 --> 01:54:05,694 the justice system isn't about what you did or what you didn't do. 2031 01:54:05,801 --> 01:54:08,667 lt's about either the government is going to win the case... 2032 01:54:08,770 --> 01:54:10,000 or you'll win the case. 2033 01:54:10,104 --> 01:54:13,631 That's all that matters in the case. lt isn't all that matters morally 2034 01:54:13,743 --> 01:54:16,676 l'm just saying in the court system, that's all that matters. 2035 01:54:16,779 --> 01:54:18,837 The prosecution will do whatever they can do... 2036 01:54:18,948 --> 01:54:21,609 spend whatever money they can to win a case... 2037 01:54:21,716 --> 01:54:24,185 and you have to do the same thing or you will lose. 2038 01:54:24,386 --> 01:54:27,877 You know, this is no longer about what the law allows or doesn't allow 2039 01:54:27,989 --> 01:54:32,221 This is about how do you make it as difficult as possible for the defendants... 2040 01:54:32,529 --> 01:54:35,622 to get them to roll over or cop a plea. 2041 01:54:35,730 --> 01:54:37,595 lt has nothing to do with justice anymore. 2042 01:54:38,533 --> 01:54:40,594 God help you if you get stuck in that system... 2043 01:54:40,703 --> 01:54:42,636 because it's very easy to get in... 2044 01:54:42,738 --> 01:54:46,002 and it's almost impossible to get out unscathed... 2045 01:54:47,310 --> 01:54:50,243 because you're up against an adversary... 2046 01:54:52,282 --> 01:54:55,681 that has everything going for it except maybe the truth. 2047 01:54:57,118 --> 01:54:59,782 And, unfortunately, that doesn't count for much. 2048 01:55:01,858 --> 01:55:03,792 So, that's the way it is. 2049 01:55:05,127 --> 01:55:08,220 lf the legal community doesn't wake up shortly... 2050 01:55:09,765 --> 01:55:12,756 we're gonna have more people locked up... 2051 01:55:12,903 --> 01:55:15,064 than we know what to do with. 2052 01:55:16,404 --> 01:55:18,895 A lot of them are going to be kids. Unfortunately. 2053 01:57:22,399 --> 01:57:23,489 l don't think it ended. 2054 01:57:23,600 --> 01:57:26,328 lt turned into this huge controversy that went on until now 2055 01:57:26,435 --> 01:57:29,997 But there weren't any more stories in the New York Times about it. 2056 01:57:31,806 --> 01:57:35,573 What would you think that we should have reported? l mean.... 2057 02:01:05,154 --> 02:01:05,921 l appreciate everybody taking the time to viewthis film... 2058 02:01:05,921 --> 02:01:08,224 l appreciate everybody taking the time to viewthis film... 2059 02:01:08,224 --> 02:01:11,658 which was a tremendous effort on the part of Emmanuel Goldstein... 2060 02:01:11,761 --> 02:01:14,752 and everyone on the 2600 staff. 2061 02:01:15,296 --> 02:01:16,662 And l want to offer... 2062 02:01:16,765 --> 02:01:20,395 my sincere appreciation and gratitude... 2063 02:01:20,536 --> 02:01:23,733 for the tremendous moral support that everyone has given me... 2064 02:01:23,840 --> 02:01:26,274 throughout this five year ordeal. 2065 02:01:46,162 --> 02:01:49,095 Subtitles by SOFTlTLER 9999 00:00:0,500 --> 00:00:2,00 www.moviesubtitles.org